question re appetite and zinc

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ElliotB
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question re appetite and zinc

Post by ElliotB » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:43 pm

@ jimmylegs

I have had for probably close to a year and continue to have a major appetite issue (lack of) and have decided to try zinc to see if it helps based on the info you just posted. There seems to be a number of different varieties. Which type do you recommend? How much (dosage amount)? How often?

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jimmylegs
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Re: Personality changes in spouse with MS. Feeling lost.

Post by jimmylegs » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:00 pm

hi elliot do you have a serum zinc level on file at all? serum copper? serum ferritin?

as to product. the local store which sold the brand i'd liked closed down. it was a product that provided 50mg zinc to 2 mg copper or 25mg zinc to 1mg copper. i only liked the 50mg option because they cost the same. however, the upper limit for long term use of supplemental zinc is 40mg/d

so. when i went looking for an alternative i encountered now foods l-opti zinc, which is (as recently clarified) zinc monomethionine. this product is also balanced w copper in an appropriate ratio to prevent copper depletion from isolated zinc intake.

ferritin status is worth knowing, because supplementing zinc on its own also will affect iron absorption.

whfoods prescribes a serving clam (iron) and oyster (zinc) chowder once a week, to maintain iron and zinc status without needing to monitor or manage for imbalance from supplemental forms. if only i liked shellfish :P
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Re: Personality changes in spouse with MS. Feeling lost.

Post by ElliotB » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:45 am

I called my Doctor's office and although I have had extensive bloodwork done over the last few years on a regular basis, my Zinc has never been tested. I am due for another round of bloodwork in November and will have it checked at that point.

I also discovered that I have been taking 20mg of Zinc daily from a multi-vitamin that I take. And many of the foods that I eat are high in Zinc. In any case I have ordered a Zinc powder supplement and will be adding about 30mg daily starting this weekend and see if I notice a difference.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

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jimmylegs
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Re: Personality changes in spouse with MS. Feeling lost.

Post by jimmylegs » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:23 am

and the copper intake / plan for testing is??

^^ re daily upper limit for zinc from supplemental sources

^^ re copper depletion from zinc supplementation

Copper Deficiency & Disorders
https://neuromuscular.wustl.edu/nother/ ... htm#copper

Copper deficiency: Acquired
-Predisposition
--Zinc: High levels
---Increased intake
----Chronic over years
----Sources
-----Zinc supplements
-----Coins
-----Denture creams

The role of copper, molybdenum, selenium, and zinc in nutrition and health.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9891606
Copper, zinc, selenium, and molybdenum are involved in many biochemical processes supporting life. The most important of these processes are cellular respiration, cellular utilization of oxygen, DNA and RNA reproduction, maintenance of cell membrane integrity, and sequestration of free radicals. ... On the other hand, excess intake of these trace elements leads to disease and toxicity; therefore, a fine balance is essential for health. Trace element--deficient patients usually present with common symptoms such as malaise, loss of appetite, anemia, infection, skin lesions, and low-grade neuropathy, thus complicating the diagnosis.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

ElliotB
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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by ElliotB » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:53 pm

I don't take any kind of copper supplement and I have never had it tested.

As with Zinc, I seem to be consuming a variety of foods that are rich in copper and have been doing so for many years so it is unlikely I have a deficiency.

I leave nothing to chance and have ordered a copper supplement which I should be able to start taking this weekend and will have its level tested as well when I have my next round of blood work.

Thanks once again for the good suggestions, always appreciated!

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jimmylegs
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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by jimmylegs » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:32 pm

sounds good - here's hoping the levels end up looking consistent with those of healthy controls :)
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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by ElliotB » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:06 pm

I am considering doing a blood test prior to supplementing as I am curious as to what my level are just based on my current diet. For all I know, I have an adequate intake of both. I am looking into that now.

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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by jimmylegs » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:01 pm

testing would be smart. no need to fix what ain't broke.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

THX1138
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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by THX1138 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:32 pm

ElliotB, How has the Zn/Cu thing been going ?
I have found that a washout period prior to the blood draw really affects results & somewhere on TiMS I have posted about it.

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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by ElliotB » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:44 am

My zinc has stayed in the 'normal' range but my appetite has not improved as a result of the zinc. I take a ton of supplements and have yet to notice any difference with any one of them, but I continue to take them with the hope they are doing something. Who knows.


I am doing OK overall but I am changing my MS medication next week on the recommendation of my neuro.

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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:00 am

some questions.

1. what is the normal range where your testing is done?
2. are your results low normal, mid normal or high normal?
3. what time of day do you have blood taken for zinc testing purposes?
4. what length of washout period to you apply prior to having blood drawn for testing?
5. what are your supplemental sources of zinc in terms of chemical form and intakes per day?
6. do you take supplements with or separate from other foods?

that's all i can think of off the top of my head
take control of your own health
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ElliotB
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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by ElliotB » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:52 am

Hi JL, thanks for your questions,

Since I have been recently dealing with several issues including a slightly elevated D level for almost a year and has been back to a more reasonable level for the past 4-6 months (just added back 15,000 IU weekly in the last week), ongoing weight loss due primarily to loss of appetite for about 2 years (resolved the issue finally by changes in my diet and cooking methods and eating more food per meal and more flattening foods as well, my weight loss has stopped and has been stable for over a month) and a DMD change which had been recommended to me for over a year ago (I finally decided to go forward a few weeks ago with it and is actually scheduled for next week), I have not been paying very close attention to the details of my blood work except for D and Magnesium levels and have left the rest to my Doctor.

1. what is the normal range where your testing is done?
Not sure

2. are your results low normal, mid normal or high normal?
Not sure

3. what time of day do you have blood taken for zinc testing purposes?
Mid morning

4. what length of washout period to you apply prior to having blood drawn for testing?
None

5. what are your supplemental sources of zinc in terms of chemical form and intakes per day?
Pure Zinc citrate powder, aprox 25-50mg per day

My diet is one that contains many foods with Zinc.

6. do you take supplements with or separate from other foods?
typically in the morning just before breakfast

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jimmylegs
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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:53 am

ok so based on item 3 below re timing, until you hunt down details 1. and 2. for your local 'box', your schroedinger's zinc status is equally likely to be alive or dead. without 1 and 2 you are blindfolded.

re item 3. midmorning is the highest serum zinc level of the day. so if your results are low normal, you could be deficient most of the time. even if you get the blindfold off re 1. and 2. details, with that test timing you're still looking at rose-tinted results.

4. zero washout is not a good idea at all. when the midmorning test is done you still have circulating levels from supplemental oral intakes. and that on top of your test being done in that best case time of day scenario. (another layer of rose-tinted glass on your ability to interpret your zinc status).

(i used to supplement before my b12 tests and results came back in the normal range every time. when i did a proper washout before the test, my levels came back undetectable).

5. dense whole food bioavailable sources being preferred, zinc citrate is ok but not the best supplemental option. based on available research i currently choose picolinate for best absorption compared to other forms and am on the lookout for gluconate for lowest likelihood of cadmium contamination. once i have both i will alternate.

6. zinc is best absorbed on an empty stomach, with lower single doses being least likely to result in nausea. if you are not already leaving a decent gap, try not to put brekkies in there too soon on the heels of your zinc input.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

ElliotB
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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by ElliotB » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:43 am

Thanks for the suggestions, very much appreciated.

As far as a 'washout period', what time frame do you suggest? I do not eat any foods or take any supplements prior to testing the day the testing is done as typically my cholesterol is also being tested at the same time.

#6 might be difficult.

I don't believe my Zinc has ever been low. In fact, I don't remember ever being told by any doctor at any time that I was deficient in any nutrient, period. But frankly until recently I never really paid close attention to the levels before either.

As I mentioned, I do consume a lot of foods that are supposed to be high in many important nutrients including zinc. But based on your previous suggestions I added a small amount in supplement form just to be 'safe'.
Last edited by ElliotB on Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NHE
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Re: question re appetite and zinc

Post by NHE » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:53 am

ElliotB wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:43 am
As far as a 'washout period', what time frame do you suggest?
For B12 and folate, for example, 3 days is a typical recommendation. I'm not sure about minerals such as Zn and Mg.

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