all things vitamin D

Post by **jimmylegs** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:01 am

yes there are definitely far lower ms rates among the aboriginal and torres strait islanders than non-aboriginal australians - although if you hunt for it, there are hints that it's starting to make an appearance (in spite of relative access to health care discrepancies etc).

RuSmolikova · Post by **RuSmolikova** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:10 am

Another Q: Why there is so many MS patients among inhabitants of Sardinia island? They are of the same race as other Italians, the same sunlight, similar fish oil input, environment, etc...
But MS rate is much higher in Sardinia...

Post by **jimmylegs** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:58 am

i'd be inclined to say they were looking for it harder there, so they found it more.

however according to this study, that only accounts for part of the discrepancy:

The marked increase of MS incidence and the change of MS clinical phenotype over time cannot be explained by ascertainment bias only,

so something changed in the environment:

thus pointing to a corresponding change in the distribution of exogenous risk factors in this highly genetically stable population.

from result #5 in regular google search on:
sardinia incidence ms

pubmed link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15990443

some have linked the changes in ms risk in sardinia to disappearance of malaria. i'd be taking a good hard look at history of ddt/similar use.

cheerleader · Post by **cheerleader** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:30 am

I've mentioned this somewhere before...can't find it.
Sardinia is/was a huge industrial mining location- and their drinking water has been found to be polluted with heavy metals-

Geochemical studies in these areas have identified the main sources of contamination to be from drainage of flooded mines, mining wastes and tailings abandoned in settling ponds, and exposed ores. The transport of the fine materials eroded from the tailings ponds contributes to spreading pollution over larger areas downstream. Concentrations of Pb, Cd and Zn in the streams draining the mining area (up to 1, 1.7, and 1000 mg l–1, respectively) are several orders of magnitude higher than those observed in rivers outside the mining areas in Sardinia

http://geea.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/con ... ct/2/3/243

There's actually an Italian study( in Italian- no link) from the '50s which linked diseases to mining pollution-
[Diseases caused by dynamite explosions in Sardinian mining industry.]

Metals (especially cadmium) destroy the endothelial balance of nitric oxide (studies cited in my paper) and can be part of the tipping point for MS-
AC

SarahLonglands · Post by **SarahLonglands** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:31 am

All this is true, but miners spend most of the daylight hours in darkness.

Sarah

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:37 am

notasperfectasyou · Post by **notasperfectasyou** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:33 am

Am I too late?

Kim's taking a boat load of D3. So while we are shaking this out, doesn't D3 trigger Ceramide? Can anyone explain Ceramide and whether there is a possible issue with D3 becasue of it? Ken

patientx · Post by **patientx** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:14 am

RuSmolikova wrote:Another Q: Why there is so many MS patients among inhabitants of Sardinia island? They are of the same race as other Italians, the same sunlight, similar fish oil input, environment, etc...
But MS rate is much higher in Sardinia...

If the occurrence of MS did coincide with the elimination of malaria, then maybe JL is on to something, that it's related to DDT use. Of course, if new cases of MS are being reported, then either the DDT would have had to cause a genetic change in the previous generation, or the DDT is still in the environment.

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:46 am

RuSmolikova · Post by **RuSmolikova** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:06 pm

Thanks for all the points, friends!

But I´ĺl mention very very very simple one: How about phenomenon of "lost enemy"?

If the immune system is set up to a certain level (dealing with malaria) and then the enemy is taken off. The immune system starts to seek another enemy and find it in CNS...
No matter if the DDT has been used and so on...

That could explain the fact that MS is rare around the equator (malaria and others). Immune system of people there hasn´t lost its enemy...

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:35 pm

RuSmolikova · Post by **RuSmolikova** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:28 pm

Lyon wrote:...I'm not sure what science it would be based on.

A friend of mine always says: "When they find out the cause of MS, we all will gape at the horseshit it will be! All people see it but don´t take it into account."

Did biologist Alexander Fleming expect to discover penicillin leaving his petri dishes, in 1928?

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:04 pm

RuSmolikova · Post by **RuSmolikova** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:52 pm

Lyon wrote:...maybe you'll find it interesting reading https://www.msu.edu/~lyonro/friendorfoe.pdf

Additionally, a lot of interesting articles in this issue of Immunology and it seems to be open access http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 3095/issue

Thanks a lot!

patientx · Post by **patientx** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:12 am

Lyon wrote:
patientx wrote: If the occurrence of MS did coincide with the elimination of malaria, then maybe JL is on to something, that it's related to DDT use. Of course, if new cases of MS are being reported, then either the DDT would have had to cause a genetic change in the previous generation, or the DDT is still in the environment.
Maybe so, but we are still left with the fact that Muller didn't discover DDT until 1939 and in most times and places the startling increase in MS incidence started long before the invention and use of DDT.

Even so, DDT may be just one of the toxic agents that causes or kicks off the disease process.