herbals

[cheerleader]

Hi Ursula-
Does your EGCG have caffeine? Maybe that is affecting your sleep?
Jeff likes the NSI GreenSelect 600mg. (2 capsule) which is caffeine free. He also tried the Source Naturals, but didn't like it as much. He takes 300mg. 3x a day with quercetin and now bromelain. Like you, he is just over 2 years, no progression and one quick relapse last month due to work stress.

Glad to hear you are well. Try getting sunshine as much as you can during the day, and sleep in a dark room. It sets your circadian clock and should help sleep, too.

all the best,
cheer

[ursula]

My neuro said the sleep issue can also come from MS.
He has one patient who can sleep only 2 hours every night - what a nightmare!
In his case it´s kind of proven that this comes from MS.

The capsules should be decaffeinated but insomnia is still listed as possible side effect.
Is Jeff sleeping better now?

Ursula

[cheerleader]

Yes, Jeff sleeps thru the night now, 8 hours....the only time he's up is to pee. Maybe once a night, and back to sleep. He went thru a period of several years where his mind was so active, he could only sleep a couple of hours at a time. He could go to bed at midnight and be up at dawn. He was also a work-aholic (do you have a similar expression in German?) We know now it was his MS. I think the antidepressant he's on has helped that, and maybe the lesions in that part of his brain have calmed down.

He has found that if he meditates during the day, gets some sunshine and exercise and takes all of his supplements, he sleeps really well. He used to have bad restless legs, and that would wake him up. A magnesium/zinc/calcium supplement has helped that.

It's a puzzle, but sleep is a problem for many MSers. I hope you find some answers, Ursula. The world looks much better after a good night's sleep.

Schalf gut,
AC

[ursula]

What´s the name of Jeff´s antidepressant?
My neuro proposed Mirtazapin (Remergil). If you take half the dose it mainly makes you very sleepy. Maybe I give that a try.

The thing is: I don´t think I have fatigue but most of the time I feel so worn out due to lack of sleep.
This is so annoying

Ursula

[cheerleader]

He takes effexor (Venlafaxine Hydrochloride). Finding the right antidepressant is like trying on shoes...everyone has one that fits them better than others. Good luck with finding some answers.
ACl

[peekaboo]

I am trying to fine tune my supplement regimine.

In the links/highlighted quotes...berberine released NO which contradicts endo health? I am going to include slavia milt. and scutellria but berberine raises a flag..what are your thoughts?

[gibbledygook]

Hi,

Sorry for delay but just back from South Africa where I got tick bite fever. Ouch.

I think nitric oxide is actually good for the endothelium as it is involved in relaxing the vessel wall. I remember one of my first discussions with a doctor on NO in which he said inhibiting this resulted in deteriorations for MS patients. However I haven't checked this on Pubmed. All I know is that when I took the berberine recently it really helped reduce the pain in my new lesion AND amazingly seemed to stop spasms on a long haul flight which not even zanaflex/baclofen manages, in my experience.

[gibbledygook]

And, Schnittke, I believe that Oregon Grape Root contains berberine and many of the important constituents of the barberry root, as does codonopsis and goldenseal.

[cheerleader]

Gibs...
Welcome back. Sorry you had to deal with "tick fever..." Do you think that might have triggered your relapse? Hope you're on the mend, and feeling a bit more stable. Thanks for the berberine info for spasms. Glad to know it helped on your flights. Will try it out for Jeff.

Peekaboo...it's not about nitric oxide being good or bad. It's when it is out of balance- due to oxidation or free radicals- that the vessel walls are prone to constriction, the immune system is thrown off and blood can become hypercoaguable. Nitric oxide is responsible for all of those functions, as it is the endothelial relaxing factor.

Antioxidants help bind free radicals, and herbs such as berberine can return the NO balance. Blood tests can let you know if these functions are out of whack...Jeff had high SED rates, low lymphs, high liver enzymes and many signs of inflammation in his blood before beginning the program. His blood numbers are now perfect - I believe it's because his system is back in balance, due to supplementation. Have a complete blood panel done if you have any questions-
AC

[peekaboo]

Thanks Gibs for introducing berberine to me...i have plenty of spasticity issues and i am definetly going to ad to my regimen....

Thanks Cheer for clarifying the NOx component in the search for optimal health and MS....

This old broad can learn new things just have to make it stick

[gibbledygook]

Good luck with it Peekaboo. You may find that taking it with salvia might make your leg too spongy. I'm increasingly finding that I need just small quantities of vasodilators like salvia, berberine or ginkgo. However I can happily take quite a lot of curcumin or scutellaria. I take 600mg berberine at about 6pm before supper. Over the next 2 to 3 hours I can notice a few increased tingles/spasms and greater difficulty walking but then thereafter the spasms vanish and the walking seems more flexible or spongy. It was quite extraordinary how easy the long haul flights were this time around despite the relapse and tick bite fever. I hope you have a good experience on it.

[Frank]

NO also plays a role as an aeriform co-neurotransmitter in the CNS. Its not like the other monoamine neurotransmitters (dopamin, serotonin etc) as NOs role ist not to transfer the actual signals between synapses.
Instead it raises the excertation potential of neurons so they are more easily getting stimulated by other neurotransmitters.

So - also i never explicitly heard about this - an increase of NO might enhance some CNS functions by increasing inter-neuron communication.

--Frank

[gibbledygook]

I'd like to add that although the berberine has helped me with pain and spasms during a horsechestnut/vasoconstrictive induced relapse, I think that they have now built up in my blood vessels to such an extent that the vessels are very dilated. This is probably fine for any areas of venous stenoses/constrictions but less good for where the vein is distended next to the lesion. This excessive dilation may also have negative effects in terms of adequate shear stress which keeps the veins in good shape. So I'm coming to the conclusion that this herb might now (once the pain has disappeared) be best taken from time to time. This also applies to the other vasodilatory herbs such as quercetin, ginkgo, salvia miltiorrhiza even gotu kola. For my part the berberine seems to have completely negated the pain in my left foot and stopped my night spasms but the walking now seems worse than it was in 37degree heat in South Africa right at the start of my high berberine dosing. Even though I have tapered off to a dose of only 600mg a day my walking feels worse (though I've also been taking gotu kola and capsaicin which are also vasodilatory). For the last 24 hours I have taken no berberine or gotu kola and my walking is noticeably better though an hour or so after I took capsaicin it became rather spongy.



It's all to do with the veins' distensions and constrictions.

[Frank]

http://machineslikeus.com/news/ginseng- ... flammatory

--Frank

[robbie]

http://insciences.org/article.php?article_id=4963
I hope it can slow it down as well, seems to have helped over the last couple years.definatly for spasticity relief, if I had to choose between baclofen and mj there would be no competition.