From wheelchair to walking?

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
Posts: 12047
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: From wheelchair to walking?

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:21 am

thx re the new info.

with eggs and cheese excluded, some whole food nutrient values are lost, but the inflammation score does go from -91 to -12.

oat and almond milk info. related scoring info:

Oatmeal, instant, dry 1/3 cup -23
Oatmeal, regular, dry 1/3 cup -69
Almond milk,unsweetened 1 cup +33

(i personally wouldn't avoid slow cook oats to get the better IF score)

the database is too mainstream to get a score for the boiled sowthistle salad. maybe just treat it as spinach?

i did find info on sowthistle's available macro and micronutrient values in table 4B here, however: http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/other/ai215e/AI215E08.htm

maybe i'll try it out this summer :)

also fwiw, re the bread you mentioned:

Bread, multi-grain: 1 ounce = -34

the basic dataset used above comes from one person's proprietary resource. i paid $5 and i'm glad i did, but i wouldn't necessarily encourage anyone else to spend the money.
i would say the author's approach is an attempt at encouraging a varied healthful diet generally aligned to mainstream public health recommendations. however, it can easily be taken to unhealthy extremes if you zero in too tightly on the IF rating, for example ignoring diversity and choosing only the highest scoring anti-inflammatory food and excluding others. other than the inflammation score itself, the majority of this info and much more is freely available via public databases such as:

International
http://www.langual.org/langual_linkcate ... omposition
Greece
http://www.hhf-greece.gr/tables/FoodItems.aspx?l=en
Canada
https://food-nutrition.canada.ca/cnf-fce/index-eng.jsp
USA
https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list

this is the only study i know of that attempts to put the IF factor system through the academic wringer:

Dietary inflammation factor rating™ system and risk of Alzheimer’s disease in elders
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3101483/
"tIFR was not associated with serum hsCRP level. After an average of 4.0 years of follow-up, 262 subjects developed incident AD. The tIFR was not associated with AD risk: compared to the lowest tertile of tIFR (most pro-inflammatory), HRs (95% CI) for the highest tertile (most anti-inflammatory) was 0.97(0.69–1.35) (p-for-trend=0.84), in the adjusted model. We conclude that tIFR might not be a biologically relevant measure of the inflammatory impact of the diet. Additionally, although it remains possible that tIFR might be related with some other aspects of inflammation not captured by hsCRP, lack of association with AD risk suggests its limited clinical utility."

mind you, i don't know if participants could be said to have used the system 'well' or 'poorly' when factors other than pure IF score are considered. i also don't know if consensus has been reached re roles for inflammation in alzheimer's:

Inflammation in Alzheimer disease: driving force, bystander or beneficial response?
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1484

related info:

The Messy Facts about Diet and Inflammation
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... lammation/

Nutrition, Inflammation, and Disease
https://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarch ... 4p44.shtml
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

labilios
Getting to Know You...
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:30 am

Re: From wheelchair to walking?

Post by labilios » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:20 am

Hello. Thank you for the links you sent me,(I read the articles,especially the greek one,although it is a llittle confusing and I don't know if they can help me.I wish,food was the answer to my condition.I am very dissappointed about all the efforts i did all these years.I am in a wheelchair,i can't walk,even the most transfers are dependent because of weakness and fatigue .i don't know what else to do.maybe i am going to be bedridden.

User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
Posts: 12047
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: From wheelchair to walking?

Post by jimmylegs » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:31 pm

hi nice to hear from you. for whatever good it may do, have you been able to increase the anti-inflammatory food ratio in your diet at all?

did you have an opportunity to go through related details at this site?
https://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarch ... 4p44.shtml

related (possibly/probably posted previously)
  • Anti-inflammatory nutritional intervention in patients with relapsing-remitting and primary-progressive multiple sclerosis: A pilot study (2016)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4950325/

    "After six months nutritional treatment, no significant changes in neurological signs were observed in any group. However, serum levels of the activated isoforms of gelatinase matrix metalloproteinase-9 decreased by 59% in primary-progressive multiple sclerosis and by 51% in relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis patients under nutritional intervention, including dietary supplements. This study indicates that a healthy nutritional intervention is well accepted by people with multiple sclerosis and may ameliorate their physical and inflammatory status."
    ...
    "Dietary supplements, daily dosage, and duration of administration

    Dibase Abiogen Pharma, vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol), 714 IU/day (5000 IU, once the week, for five months) + 200 IU with a multivitamin complex (Vit M O.T.I.) (daily administration for four months).
    SeaLife O.T.I., fish oil pearls containing omega-3 (n-3) PUFA. Daily intake: 5 g EPA + DHA, 60 mg vit. E and 300 mg lipoic acid (for six months);
    Resvital O.T.I., Resveratrol. daily intake: 150 mg, for three months;
    Vit M O.T.I., multivitamin complex (including oligoelements), per day, for four months: vitamins: C (120 mg), PP (36 mg), E (20 mg), B6 (4 mg), B2 (3.2 mg), B1 (2.8 mg), B12 (2 mcg), A (1.6 mg), D3 (5 mcg); biotin (0.3 mg), pantothenic acid (12 mg), folic acid (0.4 mg); oligoelements: zinc (30 mg), iron (28 mg), copper (3 mg), manganese (3 mg), selenium (120 mcg), fluorine (3 mg), iodine (0.3 mg)."
not amazing findings, but also the intervention design wasn't what i would consider excellent - such low dose d3 and every mineral BUT magnesium in the regimen... i'm not surprised they were not able to improve patients' d3 status.

when i first used nutrients to good effect, the protocol i adapted and used involved huge megadose intakes compared to the above. mind you, i had been undernourished for a long time prior and was relatively quite new to the dx at the time. maybe i'll go have another look at your regimen info, see if there might be some obvious and easy ways to scale things up for a short time.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

labilios
Getting to Know You...
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:30 am

Re: From wheelchair to walking?

Post by labilios » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:45 am

Hello
My daily meals are mostly anti-inflammatory,according to the site https://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarch ... 4p44.shtml
-I eat oatmeal for breakfast with walnuts,black raisins and almond milk
-I don't eat fast food,chip etc.
-I don't smoke,I don't drink alcohol and I rarely eat sugar
-I eat fish two times/week but not fatty fish
-I eat lentils and beans
-I eat whole grain bread and spaghetti
-I eat cooked food with olive oil and i eat flax seed oil
-I eat vegetables every day with my food,mostly cooked
-I don't eat many fruits,only 1 or two
but
-I started eating meat once or twice per week
i believe meals are healthy but maybe too little?
what is the protocol you follow?Does it helps you?

User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
Posts: 12047
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: From wheelchair to walking?

Post by jimmylegs » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:40 pm

hi there, mostly the dietary components listed here look good but the detailed diet diary info you had posted earlier was resulting in less than optimal numbers where inflammation is concerned.
i was wondering if you had made any changes to the status quo since that last review.

for example, would you consider
increasing the variety of cooked dark leafy green veg to 4.5c per week if not already there?
increasing the variety and amount of nuts and seeds?
switching one of your weekly fish servings (60-75g) to salmon? (i'm looking at that note from the dietitian site re efficacy improving markers of inflammation via 3 oz svgs of fatty fish 5 times per week!)

as for me, here's the routine lately:

breakfasts:
mon - 1/2c steel cut oats, 1/2c mixed frozen berries, flax seeds, milk, maple syrup
tue - 1/2c steel cut oats, 1/2c mixed frozen berries, flax seeds, milk, maple syrup
wed - 1 slice 12 grain rye toast, nut butter and fruit spread
thu - 1/2c steel cut oats, 1/2c mixed frozen berries, flax seeds, milk, maple syrup
fri - 1/2c steel cut oats, 1/2c mixed frozen berries, flax seeds, milk, maple syrup
sat - 1 slice 12 grain rye toast, 1 egg, mixed veggies and one slice bacon
sun - 1 slice 12 grain rye toast and egg.

morning snacks:
mon thru friday - 1/4 c homemade trail mix [mixed nuts (usually 3-4 kinds), seeds (usually two kinds), spices (eg turmeric, cinnamon, salt). that's the savoury bit. the other fraction is honey flax peanuts and dried cranberry. so the snacks are salty sweet and the savoury version is a good salad topper)]
weekends - n/a

lunches:
mon thru friday - ~1 c homemade soup (eg this week potato&leek made w bone and veg broth, last week harira which is veggies, lentils and chickpeas in lamb stock)

afternoon snacks:
all week - veggie sticks, sometimes w homemade hummus.

dinners: various.
75g protein
tinned wild salmon twice per week
rotating other protein sources eg other seafood (eg perch), various poultry (chicken, turkey, might try duck soon), red meat (beef, pork, goat, lamb), egg (eg homemade leek and mushroom quiche), vegetarian grain/legume combinations (eg tonight peanut spaghetti))
so many veggies
lots of variety. mix of roots (eg beets, carrots, sweet potatoes), fruit (eg squash, bell peppers) and leafy (eg spinach, cabbage, beet greens)

supplements:
mon-fri: a three per day multi, extra magnesium, zinc, vit E8 complex, vit C (scattered through the day)
sat-sun: extra fish oil
right now, extra d3 is sporadic. i'm using up an extremely high potency product. it's slow going.

fluids
daily routine: water to start the day, then a regular tea, then a small pot of home brewed coffee (2 cups), water throughout with supplements, then one or two herbal teas in late afternoon/evening. sometimes on the weekend some alcohol.

that routine has been working for me over the last year.

aside re that protocol that helped me way back in '06 - it placed a strong emphasis on dietary protein (which i had definitely been missing), included lecithin granules, and used megadose intakes of vitamin B complex and E among other things. i recently read a post about a day my symptoms had been really bad, i couldn't use my hands properly, no normal typing, no musical instruments. i took extremely high doses of a few nutrients. it restored the use of my hands right away. that was a very very long time ago though! and the condition of my hands (or feet for that matter) never got back to 100%. it was too late for the nerve roots i guess.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post