Blood work

[WarmOutToday]

haven't been on here since I was diagnosed. i've migrated across the country to a place with better sun.

finally found a doctor to test what I want (kinda) and am hoping you'll give me your opinions (any of u, but jimmylegs mostly )

hope you don't mind me putting it all down...

TEST NAME:
HEMATOCRIT 51.1 H 38.5-50.0 %
MCV 84.5 80.0-100.0 fl
MCH 26.7 L 27.00-33.0 pg
MCHC 31.6 L 32.0-36.0 g/dl
RDW 14.3 11.0-15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 138 L 140-400 thousand/ul
MPV 11.3 7.5-11.5 fl
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILIS 2940 1500-7800 cells/ul
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 1545 850-3900 cells/ul
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES 355 200-950 cells/ul
ABSOLUTE BOSNIOPHILS 135 15-500 cells/ul
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 25 0-200 cells/ul
NEUTROPHILS 58.8 %
LYMPHOCYTES 30.9 %
MONOCYTES 7.1 %
EOSINOPHILS 2.7 %
BASOPHILS 0.5 %

IRON & TOTAL IRON
BINDING CAPACITY
IRON,TOTAL 101 35-175 mcg/dl
IRON BINDING CAPACITY 293 250-425 mcg/dl
% SATURATION 34 20-50% (calc)
FERRITIN 80 20-345 pg/mL
VIT.B12 572 ng/mL
FOLATE, SERUM 12.3 ng/mL
Reference Range
LOW: <3.4
BORDERLINE: 3.5-5.4
NORMAL: >5.4

PANTOTHENIC ACID 41 >275 ng/mL
(this is b5, idk why they call it this)
COPPER 82 70-175 mcg/dL
SELENIUM 140 63-160 mcg/L
ZINC 46 L 60-130 mcg/dL (<whoaa)
VIT.D25-OH TOTAL 19 L 30-100 ng/mL !!!!!!!!
VIT.D3 HYDROXY 24 L 50-150 nmol/L !!!!!!!

WBC COUNT 5.0 3.8-10.8 thousand/uL
RBC COUNT 6.04 H 4.20-5.80 million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 16.1 13.2-17.1 g/dL


i know this is a real doozy. any words of advice would be nice.


on a slightly different note..

sooo if i didn't have hyper-kyphosis/scoliosis before being admitted into the hospital. i definitely do now.. mega dose of solu-medrol for 10 straight days, 3 times a day. wish i would have read about steroids on bone mineral density before they bombed my immune system. there crazy.





umm disclaimer: i understand im not asking qualified health professionals for their opinion (maybe some of you are). consider this a conversation between friends?

[jimmylegs]

yay nutritional bloodwork! love it.

SOOOOO your ferritin looks good, and your b12 is right on track although i'm sure that should be pg/ml, or am I crazy?
interesting that your folate is high while zinc is deficient. do you have any weird itching sensation? I used to get weird reactions to everyday nothing-out-of-the-ordinary doses of folic acid, when I was deficient in cofactors.

pantothenic acid, hmm that's not usually on my radar although it is a component of the klenner protocol and deficiency does result in neurological symptoms (among other things that I am sure lyndacarol would find interesting!). I don't have a target for b5 so use the lab's expectation for the time being. nutritiondata.com is all about liver and giblets for high pantothenic acid content, although sunflower seeds are making an appearance too, as are shiitake mushrooms. whfoods considers these options to be healthy: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart I just gained a whole new appreciation for avocados

copper is low, aim for 110, and you'll need to be careful with zinc supplementing.
selenium is tough to nail down so i'll say sure, looks good for now, i'll try to get back to you
zinc BOOO straight up deficient by anyone's reckoning. I wish you had an ammonia test too :S it's probably through the roof. anyway. with zinc, go for 120. among about a million other things, the improved zinc status will help you make the most of d3 supplements
vit d3 25(OH) get it up to 40 ng/ml. even 50 would be good. as long as you work with the various minerals at the same time.

the high rbc could be dehydration or low blood oxygen. i'm not a CBC expert so what the high rbc plus low platelet count means I couldn't really say. I would expect whatever it is to resolve once you address the clear nutrient deficit issues.

and speaking of bone minerals.. where is your serum magnesium test?!?! ;) let's just assume that's in the dumper too. if you can get it tested next time, great. in the meantime see how good a friendship you can develop with swiss chard and spinach (1c. servings, 3 min boil for chard, 1 min for spinach)!

[WarmOutToday]

hi

your right. b12. typo. correction:
b12 572 200-1100 pg/mL. its normal according to the given range, but at the lower end don't you think?
it's funny you mention an itch. I do have an itch sometimes, I believe zinc has been deficient a long time.

soo.. zinc zinc zinc
a quick google search says enough to tell me that zinc play's a part in the immune system, specifically in the balance between th1 & th2. it's hasn't even been five months since my initial exacerbation, playing with the immune doesn't sound too nice. can you tell me something to make it feel better?

copper is low, aim for 110, and you'll need to be careful with zinc supplementing.

supplement copper, or no? there are a lot of veggies that have a good amount of copper, is it going to be enough to raise serum levels to where I want them to be? again, please elaborate on zinc.

D3: I've been getting alottt of sun lately jimmylegs. is supplementing ok if im in the sun as much as I am?

they tested magnesium when I was in the hospital in may. major deficiency. i'd post the result but it's a wbc, they didn't give numbers it's just a graph

I just ate some chard & spinach. it was very good, thank u. and I absolutely love avocados now

question.. i'm loosing my hair. it's going real fast. would you say nutritional deficiencies are the culprit here? if so, which is it? hair loss isn't as much of a concern as ms, of course.. but my daughter makes fun of me everyday. i can't take it anymore, and im 23, this shouldn't be happening yet. every male in the history of my family has had good hair, all of them.



thank u for your time

[jimmylegs]

hi not too much time right now, but based on the info i have you should be perfectly safe to supplement zinc and copper. fixing a deficiency has nothing to do with excess or toxicity.
find a product containing 50mg zinc citrate and 2mg copper citrate. that will help you address the zinc issue without further depleting copper. once you have the zinc sorted then you can look at whether the copper needs additional work.
zinc deficiency and alopecia (hair loss) go hand in hand. the zinc will help you retain magnesium as well.
you need at LEAST 600mg daily magnesium intake to address deficiency. get as much as possible from food. choose organic for highest nutrient density. if you go for a supplement, choose magnesium glycinate for best absorption/retention.
if you're not already gluten free or 'gluten sparse', consider putting a limit on gluten consumption. gluten digestion is nutritionally demanding. it will work against any efforts to correct deficiency.

[WarmOutToday]

so i made a stop at my local pharmacy today, and had a chance to speak with a naturopath.

all he has available for zinc is this..
http://www.thorne.com/Products/Minerals/prd~M220.jsp

he laughed when i said copper, he thinks it's unnecessary. he also said my gut definitely won't absorb zinc citrate, "intestinal permeability is key with any supplement." he "diagnosed" my tongue, and said i could take 1000mg of zinc anything and it wont do me any good, he says he could prescribe intravenous supplementation once/twice a week.

i think he's full of it, and just want's to make money. although IV supplementation doesn't sound too bad. what do you think? it's cool because i can choose my own bag of tricks(he'll let me mix supplements, choose doses, etc.) i'd say he's a real quack though, he thinks he can give d3 via IV, but vit.D is fat-soluble right?

where do you recommend purchasing a good zinc supplement?

should i add a good multivitamin to the regimen?

i did buy some D3
http://www.professionalsupplementcenter ... QgodYXEANw
good one?
the liquid dropper is nice isn't it? i don't think i need the k2 but whatever, it's 10mcg. i'm gonna do 2,000 IU a day, because I've been getting a lot of sun.

am i leaving anything out?

i understand your a busy person. again, thank u for your time.

[jimmylegs]

hi i started answering this thurs am but my auto updates shut me down midsentence.

zinc picolinate is fine. but supplementing therapeutic levels of zinc can have implications for copper status and iron status.

people can laugh all day long but it won't change the low result on your blood test. also zinc is critical for membrane integrity ie if you don't have enough, the tight junctions between cells of the intestinal membrane break et voila, intestinal permeability aka leaky gut. luckily having low zinc levels does NOT prevent absorption. and please don't take 1000mg of zinc that is a ridiculous dangerous statement.

i am so disappointed by my experiences with naturopaths. i hear stories like yours all the time. so frustrating. i can't get on board with the weekly trips to a naturopath for injections/baloney. i looked into it for my own sake long before i had the knowledge base i have now, and the experience still rubbed me the wrong way.

anyway. where are you, i can look up a supplier or find an online one that can ship to you. a multi is a good plan. so is the vit d3, but NOT WITHOUT ADDRESSING MAGNESIUM. i'll link you up to a few options once you send me a place to hunt in

[WarmOutToday]

n.d. m.d. d.o. d.c. can't say im too happy with any of these abbreviations either. but i do like my massage therapist lol

i live in carlsbad, ca. commute to la regularly. anywhere in between would be fine. i can't help but feel a bit overwhelmed with the variety of supplements out there. never been a part of this market, haven't really developed a trust for any of these companies :/

but that's what you're here for right

so i was reading some posts the other day, and one in particular caught my eye. i can't find it now, but you said working out & physical activity deplete nutrients.
i have been working out a lott. hours every day. swimming, weight training, cardio, running, yoga, you name it.

is this ok? what do you think? because it makes me feel good and i don't really wanna stop.

[jimmylegs]

hey there just a quick response on the fly for now - keep exercising. just be aware your nutrient requirements are even higher than others'

[WarmOutToday]

hi, soo..
tell me what u think?

morning:
2 multi - http://www.metagenics.com/mp/products/phytomulti
extra 3000 iu d3 - http://www.professionalsupplementcenter ... withK2.htm

im boiling spinach and kale, and eating greens all day for magnesium

evening:
30mg zinc - http://www.thorne.com/Products/Minerals/prd~M220.jsp

that's 15mg zinc citrate in the morning, 30mg picolinate at night. am I packing enough punch?
I'm still on the look out for copper





thanks

[jimmylegs]

heya

multi looks good except I don't like that form of vit E - it's not balanced. as long as you eat lots of balanced E-complex rich foods you should be ok. and it's only 100IU in the daily two tablets. not a dealbreaker. vit E complex foods, mg per serving: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... t&dbid=111 (notice our friend spinach)

with the copper in the multi and the amount in the greens you should be balanced all right against the zinc supplements. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

make sure you get some bloodwork to monitor effects at some stage. maybe 1 month from now? 2?

[AdiosMS]

Newly diagnosed, and my main take-away at this point is you have to be your own friend.
After a hospitalization for an episode in July, while in the hospital, the blood work revealed VERY low Vit D. They pushed some I.V. The MS specialist doctor, whom I visited shortly after the hospitalization, did not say anything about re-testing it in one month. He said to come back in three months.
Fast forward to now, I'm again relapsing. I insisted my G.P. doc add Vit D screening to my blood work. It was very, very low, and he ordered 5,000 Vit D 3X/week for two months, then back for re-check.

Question: How often should one's vitamin levels be checked? It seems that is not a standard item that is measured in CBC, as the Vit D was the only one evaluated. And more importantly, which vitamin levels should be tested or is part of a proper protocol for helping MS patients?

Thanks for help and your experiences. I see we all have to add our knowledge and experiences to this board to try to get adequate care.

this is a tough road.
Thanks.

[jimmylegs]

if you copy and paste the link on key nutrients below into your browser, the first post on that thread contains some potentially useful reading. feel free to ask questions i personally think it is particularly important to monitor zinc and magnesium in addition to d3, especially if doing therapeutic high dosing of d3.