Terrible anxiety

A forum to discuss the Coimbra Protocol which uses high-dose vitamin D3 to treat multiple sclerosis.
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Ravehealth
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Terrible anxiety

Post by Ravehealth » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:01 pm

Hi everyone,

Has anyone experienced high levels of anxiety after taking more then 50,000 iu's of vit d? Whenever I take a higher dosage, I am hit with huge, almost crippling waves of anxiety, which only seem to disappear after I drop down in my dosage. From everything I have read in terms of vit d side effects, I just need to tough out the "remineralization" pain. Is it the same for this terrible anxiety? Does it go away? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I want to be able to take a higher dose, but I cannot handle this anxiety permanently....

I am currently taking 600 mg of elemental magnesium, so i don't think the anxiety stems from a mag deficiency...


Finally, I just want to thank everyone who responds. I find it quite helpful/reassuring to have a forum dedicated to this protocol, with user info. The ability to ask specific questions is amazing. Thank you all.

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NHE
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Re: Terrible anxiety

Post by NHE » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:11 pm

I have never taken such high doses of vitamin D3. However, one could hypothesize that the anxiety is caused by a micronutrient imbalance induced by the vitamin D3, e.g., either high levels of calcium or reduced levels of magnesium or a combination of the two. It would be best to discuss this side effect with your Coimbra Protocol doctor.

Here's a paper that discusses that calcium activated adenylyl cyclase is required for sustained anxiety in maze tested laboratory mice.

Calcium activated adenylyl cyclase AC8 but not AC1 is required for prolonged behavioral anxiety.
Mol Brain. 2016 May 27;9(1):60.
  • BACKGROUND: Anxiety disorder is a state of mental discomfort while acute anxiety induces an enhancement of vigilance/arousal or increased anxious responses. Most of the previous studies investigated basic mechanisms for acute anxiety, while less information is available for prolonged or repetitive anxiety.

    RESULTS: In the present study, we wanted to examine possible molecular mechanisms for behavioral anxiety after repeated exposures. Performing a paradigm of five sessions of the elevated plus-maze (EPM), we show that the repeated exposure to the EPM induces a long-lasting anxiety causing a gradual increase of anxiolytic activity, which is maintained for at least 21 days. Genetic deletion of AC8 (adenylyl cyclase 8) but not AC1 abolished long-lasting anxiety.

    CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that calcium-stimulated AC8 is required to sustain the long-lasting anxiety caused by repeated EPM testing, and we can identify in AC8 a novel target for treating anxiety-related mood disorders.
Free full text.

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jimmylegs
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Re: Terrible anxiety

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:13 am

hi RH :) what were your most recent lab results for serum d3, serum calcium and serum magnesium?
how long have you been megadosing d3?
how long have you been using 600mg of supplemental mag?
what are your main sources of magnesium from food?
re your mag supplement, what is the chemical composition?
again re your mag supplement is it tablets, capsules, powder?
what is your daily total supplement regimen?
do you take all supplements at once?
if using divided doses scattered through the day, what are the combinations at each separate intake?

context: i am not on the coimbra protocol by any means but i have d3 experience including 50K IU per day in the short term (up to 10 days each time, 3 times in 12 years) with no ill effects, and 4K IU per day in the long term with serious side effects. for me it was absolutely a magnesium issue, in spite of having been in the habit of taking magnesium daily, and when i fixed it my chronic anxiety (at that, the least of my worries) vanished for good. no problems since, even when i took 50K IU per day for 10 days recently (to achieve a specific level in bloodwork results).

looking forward to your input re the questions above :)
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

AntonioBR
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Re: Terrible anxiety

Post by AntonioBR » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:15 am

Hi Ravehealth,

jimmy asked some important question. We do not know how long have you been taking vitamin D, magnesium, vitamin B12, etc. So, if you answer those questions it would help a lot.


600mg of elemental magnesium is considered a low dose in the Coimbra Protocol. Generally, patients take between 800 and 1,200mg of elemental magnesium per day. (My brother is taking 1,500mg per day)


By the way, Are you taking your vitamin D at night?

Remember that vitamin D and Melatonin production are (probably) inversely correlated.

My brother took high doses (250,000 IU/d3) of vitamin D for almost 3 months at night. The side-effects were insomnia, anxiety and heart palpitations. When he started to take it at morning the side-effects disappeared. In his case, it was not a side-effect of lack of elemental magnesium.

Moreover, An n=1 experiment done by gwern.net (biohack website) also concludes that taking vitamin D in the morning is best. Using a ZEO, his morning dose of D increased REM, deep sleep, and number of hours slept. He looked at taking the same dosage at night, and his sleep quality plummeted. [https://www.gwern.net/Zeo]

This theory seems correct because all patients that I've been talking about this subject decreased their quality of sleep by taking high doses of vitamin D at night.


Are you taking vitamin B12? If yes, how much?

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NHE
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Re: Terrible anxiety

Post by NHE » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:12 pm

AntonioBR wrote:This theory seems correct because all patients that I've been talking about this subject decreased their quality of sleep by taking high doses of vitamin D at night.
This might be of possible interest...

The influence of vitamin D supplementation on melatonin status in patients with multiple sclerosis.
Brain Behav Immun. 2013 Aug;32:180-5.
  • BACKGROUND: Multiple sclerosis (MS) incidence is higher in geographic regions with less sunlight exposure. Both vitamin D and melatonin are essential mediators of the effect of sunlight in health, and as such are candidates to play a key role in MS. We hypothesized that vitamin D and melatonin may have related influences in patients with MS.

    METHODS: In a randomized, double blind study of 40 IFN-β treated MS patients, 21 patients were assigned to 800 IU of vitamin D3 per day (low dose), while 19 patients received 4,370 IU vitamin D3 per day (high dose) for one year. Serum 25-hydroxy-vitamin-D (25-OH-D) and nighttime urine melatonin metabolite, 6-sulphatoxy-melatonin (6-SMT), were measured at baseline, 3 months and 1 year from enrolment.

    RESULTS: After 3 months supplementation, 25-OH-D levels increased and nighttime melatonin secretion decreased significantly in the high dose group, but not in the low dose group. After 1 year, a decrease in 25-OH-D levels, accompanied by an increase of urine nighttime 6-SMT were observed in the high dose group. Percent change in serum 25-OH-D was significantly and negatively correlated with percent change in urine 6-SMT after 3 months and between 3 months to 1 year. 25-OH-D levels by the end of the study were significantly and negatively correlated to BMI.

    CONCLUSIONS: Melatonin secretion is negatively correlated with alterations in serum 25-OH-D in IFN-β treated patients with MS. The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS.
It makes sense that if vitamin D3 production is the physiological response to light, that a D3 supplement would send a "chemical message of light" to the pineal gland prompting it to decrease melatonin production.

Ravehealth
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Re: Terrible anxiety

Post by Ravehealth » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:09 pm

Hi everyone,
Thanks for responding. I guess I didnt phrase my question properly...I guess what I was hoping to hear was just general experiences regarding coimbra and anxiety, rather then detailed discussions about dosages. Specifically, if it goes away eventually once everything is corrected.

Thanks again everyone!

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jimmylegs
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Re: Terrible anxiety

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:21 pm

context: i am not on the coimbra protocol by any means but i have d3 experience including 50K IU per day in the short term (up to 10 days each time, 3 times in 12 years) with no ill effects, and 4K IU per day in the long term with serious side effects. for me it was absolutely a magnesium issue, in spite of having been in the habit of taking magnesium daily, and when i fixed it my chronic anxiety (at that, the least of my worries) vanished for good. no problems since, even when i took 50K IU per day for 10 days recently (to achieve a specific level in bloodwork results).
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

AntonioBR
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Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:06 am

Re: Terrible anxiety

Post by AntonioBR » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:03 am

Ravehealth,


Most of the people that I've been talking about or testimonials that I have read related anxiety as a symptom of:

1- Lack of elemental magnesium - especially at the beginning. Hence, doctors adjust patients magnesium dose according to their need. Remember that 600mg of elemental magnesium isn't even the minimal dose of magnesium used in this protocol. The dose ranges between 800mg ~ 1,200mg, and some patients need more.

2 - Just at the beginning of the protocol when patients stop to take their Corticoid or Nephrotoxic drugs, so the side-effects of MS (or other autoimmune condition) may increase a little until vitamin D start to do its work;

3 - Signs of Hypercalcemia. The most dangerous one. It is very important. You need to pay attention to your exams/tests. Some of the Neuropsychiatric Disturbances of Hypercalcemia are anxiety, depression and cognitive dysfunction. So, you must check your calcium levels on a regular basis [I'm considering that there is a doctor monitoring you - if not, please do not continue on this protocol without seeing a doctor first]. Remember, these symptoms are more common at high calcium blood values (12.0 mg/dL or 3 mmol/l). And they will certainly occur in a severe hypercalcemia condition (calcium levels above 15–16 mg/dL or 3.75–4 mmol/l).

4- Patients that take high doses of D3 at night or after 6 PM - they can have insomnia because of melatonin suppression. One of the side effects of lack of melatonin is anxiety.

5 - High doses of vitamin B6, B12 and Methyl Folate (or its synthetic ''folic acid'' [although the synthetic one is not indicated]). All of them promotes neurotransmitter production. But it is rare to see anxiety only because of these vitamins. The doses are not too high for it. I know other protocols from Orthomolecular Medicine where patients take a lot more B-complex vitamins than Coimbra Protocol, in that case, it can happen more often.


So, Yes. Most of the patients can solve their problems with anxiety by just adjusting their magnesium and calcium levels.

Following the protocol basic guidelines, you must check your calcium levels and may increase your magnesium dose. But, of course, talk with your doctor first.

Ravehealth
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Re: Terrible anxiety

Post by Ravehealth » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:42 pm

Okay, thanks for the help everyone. I appreciate it:)

AntonioBR
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Re: Terrible anxiety

Post by AntonioBR » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:40 pm

NHE wrote: CONCLUSIONS: Melatonin secretion is negatively correlated with alterations in serum 25-OH-D in IFN-β treated patients with MS. The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS.[/list]

It makes sense that if vitamin D3 production is the physiological response to light, that a D3 supplement would send a "chemical message of light" to the pineal gland prompting it to decrease melatonin production.

Thank you, NHE for post this study.


Ravehealth wrote:Okay, thanks for the help everyone. I appreciate it:)
Ravehealth, I have noticed that some patients are experiencing anxiety because of Methyl Folate. Some need to lower the dose and others simply do not take it.

If you are taking it too maybe your doctor could remove M. Folate for two or three months only to check how your body responds regarding high levels of anxiety.

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