CCSVI and CCVBP

blossom · Post by **blossom** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:40 pm

the doctor only mentioned the blocks. i'll ask if anything was different tomorrow. i wish that i could get the upright mri but as i mentioned when i called them to see if they had something to hold me steady to prevent movement sitting the answer was no. happypoet said her chiro. told her that up your way they have i think what they call a cage thet assists. i don't get why they wouldn't here. but, that's the story.

NZer1 · Post by **NZer1** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:58 pm

Have just returned from my Dr. BP 90/50 and drops when I stand.
*So the question to be more specific is the sensory system a matrix of signals.
*Or another way is a single signal all that is required to indicate to the brain what is happening. By that now I have said it would be a continuous signal from a sensory nerve repeating the same signal to include time into the picture.
Easy questions first!
Nigel

uprightdoc · Post by **uprightdoc** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:05 am

Nigel,
The "sensory system" is comprised of a matrix of signals from different special senses and musculoskeletal sources.
If it is strong enough a single signal can cause stimulation. On the other hand, repetitive signals otherwise to small to cause stimulation can summate over time and cause stimulation.

coach · Post by **coach** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:01 am

I have been reading up on Chiari malformation and have visited the chiari center's website in Wisconsin. Seems like it answers a lot of my questions as to why walking and balance may not have improved and at times seems worse. Anybody else? Still an overall plus for the ccsvi. I just think that was one piece of the answer in my case.

uprightdoc · Post by **uprightdoc** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:54 pm

Chiari malformations share many similar signs and symptoms to MS. Chiari malformations are also connected to scoliosis and tethered cord syndromes and can also be brought on by trauma.

While venoplasty and stents can help with drainage problems in the brain they are unlikely to help Chiari malformations and could make them worse by increasing CSF outflow. In certain cases, upper cervical correction may be able to relieve Chiari malformations. Other cases require decompression surgery.

coach · Post by **coach** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:13 pm

Dr. Flanagan,
In some ways I do seem worse even though the stents did seem to do away with the headaches and my hypertension. Where I am struggling now is with the walking and balance which never improved and sometimes seem worse. At my last appointment with my neurologist he noted that my patella reflexes were hyper and he made the comment that MS patients that had hyper patella reflexes (which from my reading can be a symptom of Chiari along with the balance and walking issues) usually had urinary problems and suggested I see a urologist. While the stent placement helped with frequency, particularly nocturnal enuresis, I still sometimes deal with urgency. Since I have been seeing Dr. Lee in Macon, GA for upper cervical adjustments, I seem to have more calf muscle pain which was the symptom that was a problem after the 14 asymptomatic years after my initial MS diagnosis. I guess I just need to be patient with the adjustments. I have had 8 as of this date and haven't noticed any improvement in my balance or walking and so far.

Drury · Post by **Drury** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:07 pm

Dr. Flanagan,

My daughter has her first appointment next week with Dr. Michael Cindrich. I asked his receptionist if he would take any xrays and was told no. We have not been able to get any done to date pf her lower back. Is there anyway you can guide us on what to expect from Dr. Cindrich when he sees my daughter. We have no idea if he is good and she is afraid of any manipulation or cracking of her lower back. She has also been feeling pain in her kidneys - could this be from her recent injury at all? She has had heavy legs etc since her accident and is experiencing new leg weakness when she has been sitting for some and then goes to get up. I h

She was treated by her AO on Friday and he is adamant that she does not need to see a lower back doctor as he feels that once the neck is treated the lower back is realigned. Is that possible?

I am still working on getting a photo of my daughter as you suggested.

uprightdoc · Post by **uprightdoc** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:00 am

Drury,

Dr. Michael Cindrich has the highest certification there is in sacrooccipital technique (SOT) and craniopathy. The corrective methods used are all low force. Generally there is little or no "cracking." Pelvic blocks are used to realign the pelvis.

Your daughter has classic signs of a low back problem with irritation of the ilioposas muscle, which is making it difficult to get out of a chair after sitting for awhile. The iliopsoas muscle is a deep muscle in the low back that is located close to the kidneys hence many patients complain of pain in the kidneys.

Yes, upper cervical correction can fix low back problems. Likewise fixing a pelvic misalignment can fix an upper cervical problem. The best method is based on a good examination. Among other things, Dr. Cindrich will be examining for signs of pelvic misalignment such as posture analysis and palpation for tenderness.

Drury · Post by **Drury** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:33 pm

Thank you as always Dr. Flanagan.

I did manage to get some photos of my daughter but I have no idea how to attach them to your pm on this website as I am not great on computers. Do you have another email address that you could pm me and I could attach them to that?

DrKoontzDC · Post by **DrKoontzDC** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:10 am

Drury wrote:She has since found out she has a UTI...

Drury wrote:She has also been feeling pain in her kidneys - could this be from her recent injury at all?

Just another thought here about the pain around the kidney area of her back. Other than the fall & the Iliopsoas muscle the pain could be due to the UTI. UTI's, if left untreated or not caught early enough, can spread to the kidneys causing pain which mimics back/muscle pain. I'm sure her PCP gave her an antibiotic prescription for the UTI which should take care of any possible kidney infection as a result of the UTI but just in case keep a close eye on it to make sure the pain in the kidney area doesn't get any worse. If it does go away relatively quickly after starting the antibiotics it was most likely due to the UTI spreading to the kidneys. If not, the pain is most likely due to her condition being exacerbated by the fall as Dr. Flanagan mentioned. If the pain around the kidney area continues to get much worse be sure to let her PCP know.

uprightdoc · Post by **uprightdoc** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:50 am

coach wrote:In some ways I do seem worse even though the stents did seem to do away with the headaches and my hypertension. Where I am struggling now is with the walking and balance which never improved and sometimes seem worse. At my last appointment with my neurologist he noted that my patella reflexes were hyper and he made the comment that MS patients that had hyper patella reflexes (which from my reading can be a symptom of Chiari along with the balance and walking issues) usually had urinary problems and suggested I see a urologist. While the stent placement helped with frequency, particularly nocturnal enuresis, I still sometimes deal with urgency. Since I have been seeing Dr. Lee in Macon, GA for upper cervical adjustments, I seem to have more calf muscle pain which was the symptom that was a problem after the 14 asymptomatic years after my initial MS diagnosis. I guess I just need to be patient with the adjustments. I have had 8 as of this date and haven't noticed any improvement in my balance or walking and so far.

Hello Coach,
Anything that increases pressure on the lower brainstem and upper cervical cord can cause symptoms such as yours. While a Chiari malformation is a possibility, it should show up on brain scans. Do you have brain scans? Did you send me your upper cervical x-rays?

Drury · Post by **Drury** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:36 pm

DrKoontzDC,

I appreciate your response. My daughter has been on antibiotics for her UTI and has less pain in the kidney region but still a bit. The first antibiotic did not work and she then had to be off of them for two days to take another UTI test. It came back as only a slight infection but the pain persisted. She was then put on a stronger antibiotic so not sure if that has helped. The bad news is that she has had a nasty flare-up and her gait and balance are really off which is scary. I hope we get some insight on Friday with the new Chiro.

Cece · Post by **Cece** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:48 pm

Drury, I hope she recovers quickly, what a difficult time.

I thought of you today, I was reading about axonal damage in MS because of Dr. Trapp's presentation about axonal asphyxiation in MS/CCSVI. What came up when I googled was axonal injury in trauma, such as car accidents and concussions were mentioned too. Since axonal injury exists in early MS, then having more axonal injury from trauma could be cumulative. It could be an explanation for why MS diagnosis might follow a trauma.

silverbirch · Post by **silverbirch** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:38 pm

Hi Ya Dr Flanagan

I popped by to say hello and to thank you for all your advise and referal I still see the Upper Cervical Dr Heidi London she is very good and I still have correction here and there. I feel good and without her I would not be this good.
My ccsvi procedure (LIJ Collaterals)has held that was july 2010 ive had 3 checks ups of flows and all that
I still pop to chrio practor ad hoc

Tomorrow I will be passing over your book and print outs from this thread to chiro.

Ive lots of reading to catch up on here.

I like the above post by Cece its all coming together !!!!
Keep well Twisted Sister (not no more)

Drury · Post by **Drury** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:08 pm

Cece,

Thank you for your kind thoughts they mean a lot.

The info on axonal injury and trauma etc. is very interesting. You are amazing at finding all this stuff out. Really helpful.