Is saturated fat bad for people diagnosed with PPMS ??

[THX1138]

I'm going back on the Paleo Autoimmune Protocol eating plan.

I really need to know if (natural, not man-made) saturated fat is bad for people with primary progressive ms That is what I've been diagnosed with, but to me, it's obviously a blood flow/volume issue.

[ElliotB]

That is the common thought. It appears saturated fats are bad for everyone. I suspect it is a good idea to avoid saturated fats but keep in mind that not all fats are created equal and some are good for you. And certain fats are essential for good health. I avoid saturated fats but I am on a high good fat diet and doing very well (almost 4 years on this diet and no relapses and according to a recent MRI, no sign of any disease activity). I eat only grass fed meats and wild caught seafood (mainly fatty fish like salmon and tuna as well as some lobster and crab), which all have basically a one to one ratio of good fats to bad fats - store bought grain fed meats and farm raised seafood have ratios typically of around twenty to one ratio or higher of bad fats to good fats - virtually no vegetables and very limited fruits (basically berries except strawberries).

In addition, I take Omega 3 supplements .

For anyone interested in why a high good fat diet makes sense, you may find this book helpful called "The Real Diet of Man"

https://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/grass ... l-diet-man

The book is free to download it and there is a download link to get a copy.

Dr. Wahls' diet is basically based on this diet. She has PPMS, lost her mobility and and look at her now!

[koneall]

That's kinda the direct opposite of my diet. I follow Dr McDougal's Theory. He says animal tissue can produce antibodies that can pass through the BBB and damage nerve tissues. His diet is 80% starch--potatoes, rice, etc and 20% veggies. Absolutely no meat, chicken, fish or dairy. I've been on it around 9 months.

[ElliotB]

While both diets are quite different from each other in their approach, they do share in common low saturated fat intake.

[Leonard]

yes, saturated fat is bad for people with MS.

MS is a metabolic disorder, of viral origin. It is marked by a high oxidative stress.

The fat inhibits the working of anti-oxidant enzymes in the cells and hence aggravates the oxidative stress condition.

Swank has proven empirically that saturated fats are bad.

The full theory is here: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... ml#p251748

[vesta]

I'm going back on the Paleo Autoimmune Protocol eating plan.

I really need to know if (natural, not man-made) saturated fat is bad for people with primary progressive ms That is what I've been diagnosed with, but to me, it's obviously a blood flow/volume issue.

Greetings THX1138:

Dr. Owiesy has provided the vital link between diet and CCSVI-MS. I just posted the following quote under "Trigeminal Neuralgia, MS and Veins" under CCSVI thread. Yes, Diet matters to assure free blood circulation!!! (Matt Embry provides a good MS protocol.)

My point :

If the same mixture is being use to relieve CCSVI-MS and Trigeminal Neuralgia, perhaps they enjoy a common origin.?

Dr. Farough Owiesy’s work brought the Eureka moment for me. The middle layer of the veins are « muscle » tissue. Muscles cramp, go into spasms. Inflammation at the cellular level releases calcium which triggers cramps/spasms. Appropriate Nutrition and Supplements work to prevent these cramps and corresponding venous stenosis. That entire process must work in TN as well. Veins are also an issue with migraines. So let’s look briefly at some research.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27500771

[Venous compression as a cause of trigeminal neuralgia].
[Article in Russian; Abstract available in Russian from the publisher]
Shulev YA1, Gordienko KS1, Trashin AV1, Pechiborshch DA1, Rzayev DA2.
Author information
Abstract
in English, Russian
CONCLUSION:
Venous compression can play both independent and assisting roles in the TN genesis. When exploring the trigeminal nerve, examination of the proximal trigeminal nerve is of particular importance, with paying attention to veins that may be a compression factor. In the case of isolated venous compression, the MVD surgical technique has some peculiarities, in particular coagulation and resection of veins compressing the trigeminal nerve root entry zone.

There it is. Veins. TN Venous « Compression ». CCSVI - MS Venous « Stenosis ». The same disorder, manifesting differently. I won’t look further than that. I knew nothing about TN until just now

So for TN victims, check out my Seven Steps to MS Health.

Previously published on ThisisMS.com and on my site
https://www.mscureenigmas.net/

Matt Embry Matt Embry’s MSHope http://www.mshope.com provides an excellent « Recipe » for MS healing – Diet, Supplements, CCSVI, Exercise

Best regards, Vesta

[eventhis]

There is no consensus on this and it is frustrating. Wahls is pro-saturated fat because it is more stable and is less likely to convert to Transfer-fats which are easily oxidized, and she thinks that is the villain. Swank pinned MS progression almost entirely on saturated fat, based on observations the diet of communities with high rates of MS and later on his powerful if not terribly scientific longitudinal study. But he didn’t consider cofounders like dairy or type of animal fat. People seem to choose one camp or the other. A middle ground would be to stick to uncooked monounsaturated fats like extra virgin olive oil, and the fats found in fatty fish.

[ElliotB]

"Wahls is pro-saturated fat"

Where have you read/seen this?

"...the fats found in fatty fish"

It is important to understand that farm raised fish have totally different fat content as compared to their wild counterparts and if consuming fish/seafood, you should not consume farm raised products (there are other good reasons not to consume farm raised fish/seafood as well). Also, grass fed meats have the exact same beneficial fats as wild fish.

[koneall]

"The fat inhibits the working of anti-oxidant enzymes in the cells and hence aggravates the oxidative stress condition." I'm a fan of ozone in my veterinary practice. At microgram levels it stimulates endogenous anti-oxidants. At milligram or gram levels it is an oxidant and damages tissues.

[koneall]

Saturday I saw a specialist in multiple neurologic conditions like MS, APS and PD. He said diet isn't a serious factor. Just use something balanced like Mediterranean Diet. But he said most people don't stay on diets for anything more than dropping weight for swimsuit season. And eventually go back to non-diets. I was on Sinemet nine months ago but didn't have the correct dosage. Now I'm back on it: One pill three times a day. That's along with the daily pradaxa and N-acetyl carnitine and Prozac and monthly tysabri infusions.

kevin

[ElliotB]

"He said diet isn't a serious factor"

My doctor said the same thing. In fact, except from prescribing a DMD, she had no information/recommendations for me of any kind. The bottom line is that no one knows for sure, including the doctors, what can help us BUT it only makes sense to insure your body is getting the proper nutrition.

Now, what proper nutrition is, nobody seems to be able to agree on that! There are a lot of theories though yet most seem to agree that saturated fats should be avoided. It only makes sense.

[koneall]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but this is how I understand it:

Paleo is basically the caveman diet, only eating what existed 100,000 years ago. But before the caveman we were monkeys with slightly larger brains. Small monkeys ate leaves and bugs for protein. Larger monkeys ate leaves and smaller monkeys for protein. Nothing in nature lives on saturated fat. Almost nothing in nature produces saturated fat. Fat is a stored energy source for winter or periods of famine. There are only three forms of nutrition: Fatty acids from fat, amino acids from protein and glucose from carbohydrates. Glucose is so precious that the body has membrane-bound enzymes to grab every molecule that floats by. All the other nutrients are absorbed passively. McDougall et al say animal fats turn into autoantibodies that can cross the BBB and attack neural tissue. So not ingesting animal fats makes sense if one is worried about MS or any other autoimmunity disorder.

[ElliotB]

"So not ingesting animal fats makes sense if one is worried about MS or any other autoimmunity disorder"


That is a common notion - not ingesting saturated fats may makes sense, but the bottom line when in comes to fats, there are many 'experts' that believe that certain specific fats are essential for good health and are very, very good for you.

You don't see too many 'experts' disputing the benefits of fish oil (omega 3s). But only wild caught fish contain the beneficial fats - farm raised/grain fed fish suffer the same fat deficiencies that meats from grain fed animals have. Eating meats/fats from animals raised without grains appears to be as beneficial as eating wild caught fish.

BUT there is no concrete evidence either way as some do well regardless of the diet they follow. Just about every MS diet works for some but not all.



There are reasons monkeys remained monkeys and man evolved to become highly intelligent. Here is some interesting reading on the subject:

Meat, Cooked Foods Needed for Early Human Brain:
https://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html


Food For Thought: Meat-Based Diet Made Us Smarter:



Sorry Vegans: Here's How Meat-Eating Made Us Human:
http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/


But like everything on the web, there are opposing views with evidence otherwise. The SORRY VEGAN article has links to 3 opposing articles, titled:

Nine Reasons Your Canine Teeth Don’t Make You a Meat-Eater

in PETA’s Yes, It’s True: Humans Aren’t Meant to Eat Meat

in Shattering the Myth: Humans Are Natural Vegetarians.

and finally, (Google “humans aren’t supposed to eat meat” and have at it.)

[NHE]

There are reasons monkeys remained monkeys and man evolved to become highly intelligent. Here is some interesting reading on the subject:

Meat, Cooked Foods Needed for Early Human Brain:
https://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html

It's been theorized that early hominids used volcanic activity in the African Rift Valley as a source of fire for cooking and that this led to evolutionary changes leading to modern H. sapiens.

[NHE]

McDougall et al say animal fats turn into autoantibodies that can cross the BBB and attack neural tissue.

No fatty acid molecule, which is a hydrocarbon with a carboxylic acid at one end, is going to transform into an antibody which is a large protein.