Eric's thoughts on women, VO2, CCSVI, MS

cheerleader · Post by **cheerleader** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:00 pm

So...Jeff and I are hanging out last night in pre-op with a young nurse, Eric. He starts talking about his research interests in the cardiovascular field, and the differences between men and women, and how women have different responses than men when they do tread mill tests, EKGs etc and that what looks normal for women would look like a heart attack for a man...for the simple fact that WOMEN ARE SMALLER and have lower maximum oxygen uptake- called VO2 levels.

So we're shootin' the breeze while waiting, and I ask Eric, well you understand the CCSVI paradigm, what do you think about the fact the women have MS at much higher rates than men...and without a beat he says- well, their vessels are smaller to begin with, the lumen is smaller, the jaw, and all the room in the neck are all tighter in women, more chance to have stenosis- and if oxygen levels are a complicating issue, women have a lower oxygen uptake levels to begin with, meaning hypoxic injury could happen more quickly in women...pretty interesting, huh?

These are the things that affect VO2/maximum oxygen levels...
• Gender: lower in women
• Age: varies inversely with age (r=.43). The maximal oxygen uptake of a 75 year old man is only about half that of a 17 year old.
• Body Size: varies directly with height, body surface area, and body weight.
• Altitude: is reduced 26% at an altitude of 4000 m.
• Exposure to heat stress up to 90o F
• Pre-testing state (physiological/muscular)

Physiological Limiting Factors
Maximal oxygen uptake can be increased by physical conditioning or decreased by inactivity.

just some random thoughts-
cheer

ozarkcanoer · Post by **ozarkcanoer** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:11 pm

Eric has a lot of good thoughts

Ruthless67 · Post by **Ruthless67** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:22 pm

I've read reports that say cigarette smoking makes MS symptoms worse and that didn't make alot of sense to me, (A former smoker) in an autoimmune MS, but sure as heck does in an oxygen/vein paragram.
Oh those teenage years, lol.

I loves these gems!! Not to mention the ah ha moments!!!

Lora

mrhodes40 · Post by **mrhodes40** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:41 pm

Good thinking by Eric! I like it a lot, oh the things that a person gets to know when they become an expert in a certain field...Ohh the things such a person can bring to light when they bend their mind around a new idea.....

good stuff!

ozarkcanoer · Post by **ozarkcanoer** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:44 pm

What if all of us MSers have a handy oxygen tank for those terrible days !!

patientx · Post by **patientx** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:22 pm

I don't think that is saying women have lower oxygen uptake levels to begin with. VO2 max is a measure of the maximum oxygen that an individual can use during aerobic activity before entering an anaerobic state.

And this wouldn't really explain why a women who runs marathons and triatholons develops MS, while a man who spends his weekend sitting on the couch in front of the TV doesn't.

mrhodes40 · Post by **mrhodes40** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:04 pm

Women do have lower uptake levels because as Eric was quoted we have smaller lumens, blood vessels etc. The circulatory system is less adequate in females so we can take up and use less oxygen even in trained athletes (see ref)

It has nothing to do with how well you use it but with how well you can get it in. We just do not have the capacity that men do.

male hearts are bigger, have better stroke volume, have bigger blood vessels, therefore the blood moves better past the membranes of the lungs more oxygen is absorbed and the do better overall at taking up larger amounts of oxygen and getting it out to tissues for use.

look at the veins on some dude's arms compared to a gal--however they have bigger bodies and more muscle to supply also.

see this source for an example
http://btc.montana.edu/Olympics/physiology/pb02.html

I do not have any idea to what extent hypoxia is the issue as opposed to , say, immune involvement, obviously such speculation is wild card, but someone will be looking into these aspects as research begins to design studies starting from CCSVI. Isn't is neat to think of all the things they may find?

patientx · Post by **patientx** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:18 pm

mrhodes40 wrote:It has nothing to do with how well you use it but with how well you can get it in. We just do not have the capacity that men do.

male hearts are bigger, have better stroke volume, have bigger blood vessels, therefore the blood moves better past the membranes of the lungs more oxygen is absorbed and the do better overall at taking up larger amounts of oxygen and getting it out to tissues for use.

look at the veins on some dude's arms compared to a gal--however they have bigger bodies and more muscle to supply also.

Just because women on average may have a lower V02 max than men, I do not think that means they are getting less oxygen while at rest. V02 max measures the capacity for aerobic exertion. If this were a factor, women in good cardiovascular condition (as well as men) shouldn't get MS.

but someone will be looking into these aspects as research begins to design studies starting from CCSVI. Isn't is neat to think of all the things they may find?

While I think it's interesting to have academic discussions like this, I don't think they would useful in a research setting. I think there's too many other more important factors to look at.