Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

[jimmylegs]

drop it down! i think you might be bouncing around too much from zero to hero with your calcium intake..

why not emphasize calcium from foods for a while - there are plenty of healthy non-animal options... put cooked cupsful of spinach, chard and kale in everything

if the food-based approach doesn't appeal, maybe just try 500mg cal citrate every other day for a while. see how you go. then retest.

I'm going to have to go back and refresh my memory re what you are currently doing for zinc and mag as well, and where your levels of those were at when your last results came in.

[Anonymoose]

Err...I don't remember zinc number but it's somewhere in this thread and you were satisfied with it. I have thrown a zinc-copper (15:1.2) into the mix a couple of times...makes weirdness amp up...so does 200mg mag. Calcium, iron, and b complex have done pretty well until last night. Now that the mind fuzz is wearing off, I think the 500mg calcium every other day makes great sense. I'm just jonesing to get back on the bone maker because I'll be easily able to at least touch all my bases with the iron, b complex, bone maker, 1/4 cup sunflower seeds, 1/4 cup almonds, and regular diet (when hub goes back to work and I can take over the menu again). Obviously, that probably won't work quite yet. Sigh.

Adding spinach and cooked greens to everything won't likely work around here. Lol. You have the luxury of not having junk food head boys around. I have to be sneakier than that and I am not cooking separate meals for myself! I'll work it out though. Hub's takeover of the cooking has been necessary but not exactly a healthy thing. I'll be having hoppin john with collard greens today though! Yum!

Thanks again!
(OMG! Your dream list includes ALL of the b's?! Lol. You do dream big! Add calcitriol though because I am sooo curious about it now! I might become a mad phlebotomist, stealing people's blood to test for calcitriol and vitamin scary. )

[jimmylegs]

all right I haven't checked back over the thread but your zinc should be ok for a while. when you're taking straight iron it's a concern over time.

strange that mag makes you feel weird. I wonder what is going on there.

you could possibly add greens to some food just for you ... could be as simple as picking up an extra box in the frozen food section. pizza for them, spanakopita for you.
in the meantime, enjoy your new years' feast! haha!

now as for that dream list. the list of suspect nutrients does include all of the b vits. but personally I would want to limit the actual testing to things I have a half decent target for. I do have some more work to do in that department.

[Anonymoose]

Howdy Jimbo

Re: the mag related yuckiness. I don't understand it either. Nerves are pretty calm with just calcium, iron, and b complex. If I add zinc-copper or mag, the nerves start hoppin! <- I smell dinner. Maybe the mag and zinc are competing for absorption of calcium or iron??

I'm digging into alternatives to slimey greens for calcium, etc. (I assume I can't have my spinach raw ) Have you seen this site? You can get the entire nutrient breakdown for foods. It's pretty amazing (though the usda has never heard of a raw or sprouted anything!). http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list It even tells you levels of individual tocopherols, amino acids, fatty acids, flavonerds, etc. Wish I knew why I would want to know all that but it must be useful to someone!

On December 2:
zinc 116
copper 107

So, you think I should be solid on those for a while??

[Squeakycat]

Have you seen this site? You can get the entire nutrient breakdown for foods. It's pretty amazing (though the usda has never heard of a raw or sprouted anything!). http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list It even tells you levels of individual tocopherols, amino acids, fatty acids, flavonerds, etc.

Just wanted to note that the National Nutrient Database DOES provide values for raw and even sprouts, at least for the most common ones.

The original purpose of the database was to provide a way for food manufacturers to calculate nutrient values for foods they sell and which have to be labeled because they are processed by looking them up in a database rather than doing a chemical analysis.

Here's a random sample:

Basic Report: 11676, Radish seeds, sprouted, raw

[jimmylegs]

all I can come up with is maybe your system can't handle any interference with iron absorption yet, since your ferritin levels were soooo low.

as for greens, I don't think you'd get the volume needed eating raw spinach.. couldn't hurt to do some like that though. you just have to watch when you get into high intakes. best to give spinach a 1 minute boil when you plan to eat lots.

that site you linked to looks like the same kind of info available at nutritiondata.com. but nutritiondata seems to have prettied it up some. either way, yes the data is excellent. I use it quite a bit. it's my other favourite, besides the whfoods site

yep ok I remember those copper zinc numbers. yea they're pretty decent. each one could stand to go a smidgeon higher but not until you've got your serum ferritin up closer to 80.

OH and one more thing. remind me whether you are getting plenty of vit C to help absorb your iron?

[Anonymoose]

Squeaky,
You got me on that one. It just didn't have the raw or sprouted items I was searching...unless 'almond' means raw almond. Didn't have any sprouted grains or many seeds either.

Jimmy,
Wow, that is prettier! I've been to whfoods quite a bit but never nutrition data...methinks I'll use that instead of usda site.

I take the iron with a cup of unfortified OJ and eat a fair share (though not as much as you, kale breath!) of produce so I think there's enough vitamin c for the iron.

What do you know of calcium absorption from raw or roasted nuts and seeds? Issues? And what is your take on the controversial thinking that veggies need less calcium intake?

[Squeakycat]

Squeaky,
You got me on that one. It just didn't have the raw or sprouted items I was searching...unless 'almond' means raw almond. Didn't have any sprouted grains or many seeds either.

It does mean raw since they have to include the type of cooking in the description otherwise. I specifically asked that question years ago.

Try searching "sprouted." You won't find everything, but there are a lot of things.

They only get included if someone wants to incorporate them into a food product and does a study of the nutrient values.

Brussels sprouts, raw
Lentils, sprouted, raw
Wheat, sprouted Cereal Grains and Pasta
Alfalfa seeds, sprouted, raw
Brussels sprouts, frozen, unprepared
Radish seeds, sprouted, raw
Peas, mature seeds, sprouted, raw
Soybeans, mature seeds, sprouted, raw
Beans, kidney, mature seeds, sprouted, raw
Mung beans, mature seeds, sprouted, raw
Mung beans, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, stir-fried
Beans, navy, mature seeds, sprouted, raw
Brussels sprouts, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt
Brussels sprouts, frozen, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt
Lentils, sprouted, cooked, stir-fried, without salt
Soybeans, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, steamed
Soybeans, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, stir-fried
Beans, mung, mature seeds, sprouted, canned, drained solids
Beans, pinto, mature seeds, sprouted, raw
Brussels sprouts, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt
Brussels sprouts, frozen, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt
Soybeans, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, steamed, with salt
Lentils, sprouted, cooked, stir-fried, with salt
Vitasoy USA Organic Nasoya Sprouted, Tofu Plus Super Firm Legumes and Legume Products
Beans, kidney, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt
Mung beans, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt
Beans, navy, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt
Peas, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt
Beans, pinto, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt
Beans, kidney, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt
Mung beans, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt
Beans, navy, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt
Beans, pinto, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt
Peas, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt
Soybeans, mature seeds, sprouted, cooked, stir-fried, with salt

[jimmylegs]

one tip for using nutritiondata anon - i tend to put the food or nutrient of interest plus the term nutritiondata into a google search. sometimes it can get you to the specific info you're after much faster. i just compared a search for the term 'spinach' in nutritiondata (34 results) to one in google (4 site-specific results).

for boosting the vit c - besides the OJ, do you get plenty of red pepper and strawberries?

as for calcium absorption from nuts (or other legumes) and seeds - i do remember being told years (decades) ago by a nutritionist, that making 'hummous' dip using split peas and peanut butter would be good for veg calcium. (that was my introduction to hummous, it would be ages before i would learn about chickpeas and tahini.. sesame seeds pack an awesome calcium punch)

basically, anything with gluten or phytates or oxalates you need to be aware their effect on mineral absorption. dairy is supposed to be more bioavailable. greens are better if you boil and drain them properly. seeds if you sprout them, or soak and rinse them. nuts i would say however you want, as long as the amount is within reason.

there are a lot of different factors that can affect calcium intake requirements. as i understand it ti can be affected by too much protein, too much phosphorus, and too much salt (never mind the gluten/phytates/oxalates already discussed).. so i think for calcium requirements, it really depends what kind of vegetarian lifestyle the individual chooses.

[Anonymoose]

Thanks for the tips, squeaky.

Jimmy,
You're gonna inspire another pout! I only eat strawberries when they are in season...red peppers only when dining out. I guess I will have to work on that too. All this thinking about food is unnatural...what ever happened to find it, sniff it, and eat it??

[jimmylegs]

awww

how do you feel about herbal tea? i hear rosehips have lots of vit C..

[Anonymoose]

Aahhh! Pout averted. I love herbal teas. I will pick up some rosehip today when I make my nut run.

Incidentally, I checked out the out of season strawberries this am...pathetic! I got spoiled picking fresh in Texas. I got some sunflower seed and almond butters for selenium and magnesium too. I can't stand tahini but love whole sesame seeds so I'll use those more...my son actually likes them! Shocker.

Edit: Success! Invented a sunflower seed, almond butter, and blackberry jam sandwich. My son loved it and made one for himself! Nothing short of a miracle and I don't care if it was on bread! Lol. Jimmylegs, nutrition data and whfoods have conflicting data on sunflower seeds (selenium and vitamin e). Which one to believe?

[jimmylegs]

eeeee liking all your good news bits!

wow no tahini, not even in the context of hummus? however you can get em, get em i enjoy them sprinkled on stir fry. and should have stir fry more often than i do :S

re sunflower seed info - off the top of my head i would say make sure you set up the serving size properly on nutritiondata (there's a little drop down on each food page). or do the math. nutritiondata often defaults to 1c serving and whfoods uses 0.25c for a serving of sunflower seeds. let me know if that sorts out the discrepancy you are seeing ;)

[Anonymoose]

Okay...yesterday nutrition data showed sunflower seeds had no or squiggly line vitamin e and selenium. Today, it is back to normal. I swear it wasn't user error!!

I got some rose hips and legs yesterday and had a cup of tea in the afternoon. It has a bit of a sedative effect so will have to be an evening drink. I also googled high vitamin c foods...I get enough of them to meet meager recommended daily value several times over but not great gonzo amounts. I'll try to boost a bit but I am not super worried about it. I think I will pick up a guava fruit...hopefully it won't give me flashbacks of a Mexico vacation during which guava and watermelon juice and alcohol were the only available drinks.

I do eat hummus...store bought roasted red pepper...kidney bean hummus too. I have a hard time believing it has very much tahini in it...doesn't have that gross taste.

Everything is getting back to the post rituxan point at which I felt sensory improvements (plus energy from the iron!). I think I will stay where I am with the supplements for a few weeks and retest d, calcitriol, calcium, ferritin, zinc, and magnesium. Cha-Ching! If calcitriol is normal, I'll try vitamin d again...if I hurt again I am not going to washout before retesting vitamin d, calcitriol, and calcium. There I go making plans again...

[jimmylegs]

ah ok - problem solved then fyi squiggly line just means 'unknown' though. if they know it's zero, they'll specify.

you can just think about eating high potency vit c foods as close as possible to your iron-rich foods

yep I don't think there would be tons of tahini in store bought hummus. good choices though.

glad you are starting to feel better! status quo and a retest in a few weeks sounds very smart!