Dr. Zamboni, NASA, and Rocket Science

[MrSuccess]

and I may add .... rumour has it .... Neurologist's that are firmly entrenched in the anti-CCSVI camp , have rented time at various Observatory's to keep an eye on things at the Space Station .... in the event the Italian Astronaut try's to pull a "quickie" and puts the
neck collar on a Martian.

As they have pointed out ... Dr.Zamboni will go to any length .... to prove his point.


MrSuccess

[1eye]

Zamboni called it CCSVI. He never said it was the cause of "MS". NASA are interested in his thorough knowledge of head drainage, but in zero-gravity. If we learn anything about "MS", bonus. I don't think much about astronauts applies to me, except that a) I am human, like them, and b) gravity is very important to me, and I depend on it, like them.

If zero-gravity makes them susceptible to problems that have anything to do with the ones that come from stenosis, we'll probably hear about it.

I think we just need to build a bigger space-station, and to use centrifugal force like all those sci-fi writers told us we should. I read in a Malcolm Gladwell book that when a plane has no visibility, if you don't look at your instruments a death-spiral descent feels exactly like flying level. You can't tell. So for that reason artificial gravity would work fine. One burn to set you spinning, and bob's yer uncle.

[MrSuccess]

I'm not in agreement with your comment about NASA being interested in Dr.Zamboni's
experiment in measuring bloodflow in zero gravity.

NASA has agreed to allow the neck collar testing . They also let many other ideas and
such , to be investigated. Some are even submitted by bright school age chidren.

I doubt by allowing these experiments .... this is a ringing endorsement by NASA.

No doubt , proposed experiments are carefully examined so as not to waste valuable
resources. That said .... if they are shot into space ... there is a great interest to the space program. I am certain only the best ideas get accepted.

As is Dr.Zamboni's theory of CCSVI.

Ground Control to Major Tom .......

MrSuccess

[CureOrBust]

I would guess that NASA would be interested in any changes to human physiology under weightlessness, in preparation for the possibilities of future long term flights.

[1eye]

Samantha Cristoforetti:

On the science side, I performed an ultrasound session for the Italian Space Agency experiment Drain Brain. The specific hardware of this experiment was lost on the Orbital mishap, but a replacement hardware will be on its way soon on the SpX-5 cargo mission. In the meantime, we could get the science started with the standard ultrasound equipment of the Space Station.

Of course, I’m not able to do an ultrasound on my own: a private audio channel was set up with the Principal Investigator on the ground, who provided remote guidance based on real-time data from the ultrasound machine. He could also see a live video downlink of me performing the operations. Things went pretty smoothly, especially thanks to the fact that in the morning I had assisted Butch in performing his ultrasound (a more complex one, requiring two people) for the experiment Cardio-Ox. Butch had introduced me to a great trick of space ultrasound: no need to use a messy gel on the ultrasound probe, you can just use water!

I think the ISA's work and that of Ms. Cristoforetti are likely more more important to NASA than a schoolchild's experiment. This is a non-trivial investigation into bloodflow in microgravity and will likely have implications relating to serious known space health effects. I expect the Principal Investigator on the ground was probably Dr. Zamboni. The ringing endorsements will come after the results are reported, though I think to date there has been more than a rubber stamp.

Since they used the station's standard ultrasound equipment, the Esaote machine may have been part of what was lost. What Dr. Zamboni did with the plethysmograph in his other study involved time measurements after tilting in a chair, which would have no effect in space. I expect they will be comparing Ms. Cristoforetti's time measurements with and without gravity, in space and on the ground. The only forces left to drain the blood from the brain will come from the low blood pressure of the veins, along with whatever comes from adjacent muscles in the neck and shoulders. One possible force might also be the pumping of the right side of the heart, so it could be interesting to see if there is any negative pressure involved.

[MrSuccess]

Yes , I agree that NASA would no doubt welcome any experiment that would help them
understand the effects of space travel on people. Bone density loss .... headaches , just
to name two that I am aware of.

To have included Dr.Zamboni's experimental neck collar on this NASA mission ..... is very
encouraging . There is no doubt in my mind that NASA does see the concept .

I take great glee in imagining the angst of the old school Neuro's ..... as they watch this
unfold.

Don't discount or belittle space experiment ideas , put forth by youth. It is these young brilliant minds ..... that will find solutions to old problems. NASA knows this.

If it is on the mission .... it has merit.

Anyone know what other science projects are being conducted ?

MrSuccess

[cheerleader]

NASA wants to understand venous and CSF flow in microgravity, because they've got 20% of all astronauts coming home with visual problems. They contacted Dr. Zamboni because he had the technology and knowledge...he didn't approach them.
This is from the NASA site:

Drain Brain studies how blood returns to the heart from the brain through veins in an astronaut’s neck. This can help scientists better understand the mechanisms that ensure proper blood flow in microgravity. ISS Crewmembers report a variety of neurological symptoms that may be related to changes in this blood flow. The project also studies how blood flow changes in response to crewmember schedules in space, which do not follow the typical day-night schedule of most humans on Earth.
Earth Applications
The instrument developed for Drain Brain, called a strain-gauge plethysmograph, does not require any surgery or special knowledge, which could make it an ideal tool for monitoring patients with a wide range of heart or brain disorders. In previous research, the scientists who developed the instrument identified a possible link between some neurodegenerative disorders, such as multiple sclerosis, and blockage of veins that connect to the brain. Researchers are also interested in studying the connection between these brain-related veins and cognitive disorders, such as Alzheimer’s disease. Drain Brain’s novel system could be a new way to screen for this vein abnormality.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stati ... /1278.html

This is why NASA contacted Dr. Zamboni:

Some of the neurological issues being reported by astronauts living in microgravity include loss of vision, fatigue and headaches, possibly due to increased intracranial pressure. One in five astronauts report changes in vision after returning to earth, and many problems involve the optic nerve, also an area of change in multiple sclerosis, which could be related to disturbed venous flow. After five to six months in microgravity, 20% of the astronauts are noting vision problems.

21 U.S. astronauts that have flown on the International Space Station for long flights (which tend to be five to six months) face visual problems. These include “hyperopic shift, scotoma, and choroidal folds to cotton wool spots, optic nerve sheath distension, globe flattening and edema of the optic nerve,” states the University of Houston, which is collaborating with NASA on a long-term study of astronauts while they’re in orbit. http://www.universetoday.com/114161/eye ... uts-study/

"What we are seeing is flattening of the globe, swelling of the optic nerve, a far-sighted shift, and choroidal folds," said Dr. C. Robert Gibson, one of authors of the study published in the October 2011 issue of Ophthalmology, the journal of the American Academy of Ophthalmology. "We think it is intracranial pressure related, but we're not sure; it could also be due to an increase in pressure along the optic nerve itself or some kind of localized change to the back of the eyeball."

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stati ... ision.html

These black spots, swelling of the optic nerve, and changes to vision are seen in increased intracranial pressure, as well as multiple sclerosis. My husband had all of these issues, and a loss of peripheral vision, as a child. It would decades before he would be diagnosed with MS, and after that have a repair of his malformed venous system.

It will be interesting to learn what the Drain Brain study teaches us about venous return and the long terms affects of micorgravity. It is absurd to claim that slowed venous drainage does not matter to brain and eye health.

http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com/2014/11/n ... antha.html

cheer

[MrSuccess]

thanks for posting that , Ringleader. This is better than I thought .
All of those symptoms , of the space explorers.... certainly seem to fit MS
to a Tee.

So now what happens ?

And once again for the record ....... MrSuccess is fully in support of Dr.Zamboni and
his CCSVI theory. Plain old common sense supports his medical findings.

What I did try to do , is clarify that the neck collar experiment , would only be one of
numerous other tests . I am very certain that anything transported into space , has
been carefully examined for it's worth.

I am sure NASA gets lot's of silly and/or suggestions.

MrSuccess wonders how one may boil an egg. It probably keeps floating out of the pan !

Good Research RL


MrSuccess

[1eye]

possibly due to increased intracranial pressure

If there is a stenosis in a neck vein, (or an absence of gravity) it seems to me that a possible response from the heart, is to increase pressure towards the brain to compensate, assuring inflow is adequate for the required outflow (speaking from the heart's point of view). This will be part of the brain and heart's autonomic repertoire, using artery diameters and pumping force from the heart.

If there was an increase in arterial (and therefore also venous) pressure, it might be limited by our biology to certain organs in the brain, sparing more vital areas.

[NHE]

I am sure NASA gets lot's of silly and/or suggestions.

MrSuccess wonders how one may boil an egg. It probably keeps floating out of the pan !

It would be difficult especially since you couldn't keep the water in the pan in the first place.

[MrSuccess]

Where there is a will .... there is a way. I would suggest they mount the stove UPSIDE Down .... on the ceiling. Put the pan on the burner. Then the water . Then the egg.

Voila`



MrSuccess

[Cece]

http://www.noninvasiveicp.com/sites/def ... 1/VIIP.pdf

they mention risk stratification based on anatomy including incompetent jugular valves and jugular and "parajugular" veins contribution to cerebrovascular outflow

it's a great fit from Dr Zamboni's work to NASA's needs

[1eye]

We keep pretty good track of arterial blood pressure. Outside certain bounds you are sick and liable to get worse,

Venous blood pressure might be similar, but since normal is a tiny fraction of what it is in arteries, if it is sensitive at proportionately lower levels, then it would not take very much to put you in the sick zone. Who knows what effects the differences in venous and arterial blood's physical properties are sensitive to? It seems to me this is somewhat uncharted territory, and so far this plethysmograph is the best measuring device we've got.

I think we are far more precise with industrial and manufacturing processes than we are with medicine. Witness the lack of attention to measuring to see how much of a drug actually got absorbed...

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department!" says Wernher von Braun

-Tom Lehrer

[MrSuccess]

I am extremely pleased to read that NASA has initiated the call to Dr.Zamboni.

And recognized his expertise.

Take that ..... small time Neuros .

MrSuccess

[cheerleader]

The Drain Brain experiments on the International Space Station have been completed! We'll be looking forward to results in the coming months. Congratulations to NASA, Dr. Zamboni and astronaut Samantha Cristoforetti!

cheer