Does MS cause CCSVI?

scorpion · Post by **scorpion** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:20 am

Cece wrote:Zamboni's research, which found zero instances of CCSVI in controls in a blinded study, is the only one that has been peer-reviewed and published.

Did I miss this study?

fernando · Post by **fernando** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:16 am

Therefore, current knowledge of MS makes it more likely that constant drainage of inflammatory proteins through the major veins of the brain could cause the venous changes reported to occur frequently in MS.

What about missing jugulars and inverted valves? An inflammatory protein can dissolve a vein?

Why these inflammatory proteins only affect veins? In the first place, how this inflammatory proteins arrive to the CNS? by blood? It sounds like arteries should be affected too.

fernando · Post by **fernando** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:22 am

The narrowins are not caused by inflammation but rather by stiffer collagen and by malforomed valves that do not move properly and may be fused.

The quote is from Dr Sclafani.

pklittle · Post by **pklittle** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:56 am

I deleted my post...

1eye · Post by **1eye** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:22 pm

You guys, lay off. This is not fun for anybody to witness. It does not help people whether they still have MS or have clots or whatever. Please stop name-calling, sarcasm, and criticizing each other spuriously. This is not a game. There are people whose lives are at stake.

CCSVIhusband · Post by **CCSVIhusband** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:23 pm

You missed the point, but call it heartless if you want. I won't remove it because you can't read between the lines ...

If you listen to certain people on this board, you'd think CCSVI doesn't exist at all ... FACT is it does. That's all I was saying. Notice how a certain few are keeping this topic at the top with "BUMP" when it's not even a good topic?

Oh well ...

Like I said, I hope everyone who gets treated for CCSVI has great results ... that's not laughing at nor mocking anyone ... and if you don't get those results, keep pushing, because they are there.

All the best ... but be mad at me if you want ...

scorpion · Post by **scorpion** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:29 pm

deleted by poster

scorpion · Post by **scorpion** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:33 pm

1eye wrote:You guys, lay off. This is not fun for anybody to witness. It does not help people whether they still have MS or have clots or whatever. Please stop name-calling, sarcasm, and criticizing each other spuriously. This is not a game. There are people whose lives are at stake.

1eye I never thought I would say this but I agree with you!!!!!!

CCSVIhusband · Post by **CCSVIhusband** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:56 pm

Like I said Scorpion, it's fine, demonize me for words that are being taken to mean something they didn't mean ... if I were against CCSVI as a few of you "appear" to be, I'd probably be mad at someone with strong PRO-CCSVI beliefs, convictions and who personally sees CCSVI results tangibly. If I were anti-CCSVI, I'd probably want to knock the PRO-CCSVI guy down a peg too so his word means less to those looking for real information too.

But like I said, those words you highlight aren't a knock or an attack on anyone, it's just me saying if you don't want to get your loved one's CCSVI treated, that's your choice. So, that explains what it means when I say "not my life, I don't care" ... because you're right, it's your life, your choice, whatever. Just like I don't care if you get an abortion or not, no matter my personal beliefs on the topic. I'd rather be a libertarian on the matter - and let God judge your choices.

So ... yeah, please threaten to get me kicked off the board for crossing a line that wasn't crossed. Whatever ...

... and these people are why I don't post here anymore

... because they love me so much because I see real CCSVI results every day and they're so happy for me and my wife. (really, I mean they never congratulated us or anything ... so I'm POSITIVE they're happy for us).

scorpion · Post by **scorpion** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:22 pm

CCSVIhusband wrote:Like I said Scorpion, it's fine, demonize me for words that are being taken to mean something they didn't mean ... if I were against CCSVI as a few of you "appear" to be, I'd probably be mad at someone with strong PRO-CCSVI beliefs, convictions and who personally sees CCSVI results tangibly. If I were anti-CCSVI, I'd probably want to knock the PRO-CCSVI guy down a peg too so his word means less to those looking for real information too.

But like I said, those words you highlight aren't a knock or an attack on anyone, it's just me saying if you don't want to get your loved one's CCSVI treated, that's your choice. So, that explains what it means when I say "not my life, I don't care" ... because you're right, it's your life, your choice, whatever. Just like I don't care if you get an abortion or not, no matter my personal beliefs on the topic. I'd rather be a libertarian on the matter - and let God judge your choices.

So ... yeah, please threaten to get me kicked off the board for crossing a line that wasn't crossed. Whatever ...

... and these people are why I don't post here anymore ... because they love me so much because I see real CCSVI results every day and they're so happy for me and my wife. (really, I mean they never congratulated us or anything ... so I'm POSITIVE they're happy for us).

I deleted my post because you are right, I can not know why you wrote what you did. I would ask you to stop labeling people anti and pro CCSVI. I and the other "skeptics" either have MS or have a loved one diagnosed with it so we would love for CCSVI to be a cure. Sorry for misinterpreting your words.

dreddk · Post by **dreddk** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:22 pm

CCSVIHusband There is no proof yet that CCSVI causes MS.
That is not the same as saying CCSVI does not cause MS. As such, which comes first is a legitimate topic for speculation.

gainsbourg · Post by **gainsbourg** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:46 pm

Fernando wrote:What about missing jugulars and inverted valves? An inflammatory protein can dissolve a vein?

This point was answered a little earlier in the thread. Remember, if the Buffalo figures are anything to go by roughly 1 in 4 healthy people have CCSVI.

That's an incredible finding don't you think? Even if we take the lower figure in other studies, (as pointed out by Billmeik or was it Cece) of one in every 10 or one in every fifteen healthy people - it is still much higher than anyone expected, after Zamboni original said that no healthy people in his study had CCSVI.

Perhaps the implications of the new figures have not yet sunk into peoples minds. It means that if the figures are accurate, then CCSVI is an incredibly common condition ....probably as common as left handedness!!!

This means that nearly all instances of CCSVI worldwide (including missing veins or whatever) must have absolutely nothing to do with MS. Only a tiny fraction could have any possible connection to MS because only a tiny proportion (<0.001%) of the world has MS. Even if in some of those people with MS, CCSVI is proven to be connected, there is already a 1 in 4 chance that they'd have an another instance of CCSVI (for what ever reason healthy people have them) anyway!

gainsbourg

Cece · Post by **Cece** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:00 pm

Here is a thought: if you have CCSVI, it takes on average thirty years for MS to be diagnosed. So if it's congenital CCSVI, that's thirty years from birth, which fits with traditional MS. If it's 'acquired' CCSVI, from a car accident or chemotherapy or dialysis central vein access or aging or who knows, it's thirty years from that point. So CCSVI that develops as an adult is not going to turn into diagnosable MS for another thirty years, which may push it close enough to the end of a lifetime that 'going senile' or walking with a cane is not that unusual.

dreddk · Post by **dreddk** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:00 pm

Pure speculation but perhaps the cause of CCSVI is also linked to low vitamin D levels. Hence CCSVI and MS share a common causal factor but are themselves not causal