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Post by scorpions » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:05 am

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Post by milesap » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:11 pm

There getting closer

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Post by gainsbourg » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:24 am

A new study by researchers at Queen Mary, University of London shows how the Epstein-Barr virus tricks the immune system into triggering an acute inflammatory process and nerve cell damage in the brain, which is known to cause MS.
Finally! This is the breakthrough I've been waiting for for. I have been using more or less these exact words for years - that the herpes virus tricks the immune system into triggering an immune response by it's very presence.

I'm happy to now say catagorically that there is now no question whatsoever that herpes causes MS.

Maybe I will bump my old posts for the benefit of those who have ignored the incredible recent discoveries linking different forms of herpes and MS - due to their attention being diverted by CCSVI. Trouble was, almost all researchers said "there's no evidence that herpes attacks myelin" - but now, finally, we know it doesn't have to attack. Its mere presence, at the ganglia of nerve roots, somehow scares, or tricks, the immune system into attacking healthy tissue.

It answers the mystery as to why DNA from herpes antibodies increases by something like 500% in the spinal fluid of MS sufferers during attacks. Such DNA is not found in the CFS of non MS-rs.

Everyone knows that stress often triggers herpes attacks. The very same factor that is known to frequently precede MS attacks. In fact stress is the only factor known to consistently bring on MS attacks.

It would be interesting to know if herpes is common in the world's MS hotspots - and vice versa. I seem to remember something about Sicily having high incidence in both MS and herpes, with neighbouring Malta having low incidence in both. MS is almost completely unknown in those who have never had the varicella strain of herpes (chicken pox). Varicella is rare near the equator where MS incidence is low.


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Post by gainsbourg » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:17 pm

Appologies for this double post but I thought I would provide some more links and information about the discovery by Dr. Ute Meier and her team. It looks as if the majority of TIMS members have either not come across this thread yet or haven't quite grasped the implications of the findings.
EBV is quite a clever virus; when it’s not growing and spreading it can hide away in our immune cells.

"In this study we used a different technique which allowed us to detect the virus in the brains of some people affected by MS, even when it was hiding away in the cells.”

Dr Meier and her team of collaborators found that, although the virus was not actively spreading, it was releasing a chemical message into areas of the brain nearby. This chemical message - made up of small RNA molecules - was activating the body’s immune system, causing inflammation. This damages nerve cells in the brain and causes MS symptoms.

Dr Meier continued: “We have to be careful and have to study more MS brains but this is potentially very exciting research. Now we understand how EBV gets smuggled into the brain by cells of the immune system and that it is found at the crime scene, right where the attack on our nervous system occurs. Now we know this, we may have a number of new ways of treating or even preventing the disease.
http://niceguidelines.blogspot.com/2012 ... ystem.html


New Scientist seem to think that this is an important discovery:
For the first time we have an answer to what Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) may be doing in the brains of people with multiple sclerosis. RNA from the virus could be triggering the inflammation of nerve tissue characteristic of the disease.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... amage.html

Meier is a naturally a little conservative about the findings, but if they don't yet prove conclusively that herpes causes MS, they almost certainly confirm that herpes plays a role.

No doubt we will soon discover how other herpes viruses, such as varicella, can trigger the immune system in a similar way. I believe the end of MS is now in sight.


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Post by lyndacarol » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:32 pm

Not EBV, but I found the connection between another herpes virus, varicella, and sunlight (ultraviolet light) reminiscent of the observation of less MS with proximity to the equator:


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Post by ikulo » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:01 pm

I remember researching anti-viral therapy in the past and never did find any significantly positive studies. Anyone have any?

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Post by gainsbourg » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:25 am

So far there is no known drug that can kill any form of the herpes virus - EBV; Varicella (chicken pox) etc. The only substance in the world though able to destroy herpes is cobra venom, but there is scant info on the internet about this. This is why I believe venom therapies, like bee venom, have been partially successful against MS.

However, the chemotherapy drug Rituximab; a drug which is known to kill the cells of the immune system in which the virus hides. It is now being trialed as a treatment for MS. There are trials going on for safer drugs which may also kill the cells in which herpes resides.

Does anyone know of any natural substances that are thought to reduce or kill herpes? I seem to remember something about olive leaves, and blackcurrant. If herpes is the cause of MS, anything that makes a difference against EBV, varicella etc. is worthwhile.

I believe herpes will also be found to be behind the main peripheral nervous system equivalents of MS - Guillaine Barre and CIDP, and a host of other neurological illnesses. It's very exciting.


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Post by kibibikel » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:41 am

What about the amino acid L-lysine? It is used for prevention and treatment of cold sores. Not sure if it would specifically target EBV though.

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Post by kibibikel » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:58 pm

It answers the mystery as to why DNA from herpes antibodies increases by something like 500% in the spinal fluid of MS sufferers during attacks. Such DNA is not found in the CFS of non MS-rs.
Hey Gainsbourg, or anyone else who might know..

I have seen this come up a couple of times on different threads on tims, but I can't seem to find a link to the actual study. Does anyone know where I can find it?

Thanks a bunch!

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Post by gainsbourg » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:12 am

Hi Kibibikel, I think this is the one you mean:


Also, here is a more recent meta analysis:



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Post by cheerleader » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:16 pm

A recent post mortem study showed reactivated EBV cells in active MS lesions and in stroke brains.
In the seven MS patients' postmortem brain tissue studied, active MS lesions all contained Epstein-Barr virus infected cells.

Such cells weren't unique to MS, but were also detected in CNS tissue from two control patients with stroke, which the researchers pointed out is also a disease in which inflammation plays an important role.

Notably, Epstein-Barr virus-positive cells were present in much higher numbers in active MS lesions than expected in peripheral blood B cells, "which suggests that these cells are recruited to or accumulate in CNS infiltrates," Lünemann noted
http://www.everydayhealth.com/multiple- ... in-ms.aspx

What might reactivate this virus and cause it to replicate in the B cells?
Lack of oxygen reactivates EBV infection. The ischemic injury of slowed blood flow, caused be stroke or CCSVI, could reactivate EBV cells.
EBV in latent infection can be activated to lytic infection by hypoxia treatment.
http://www.journalofclinicalvirology.co ... 7/abstract

In fact, researchers have found a link between pwMS who smoke, and the levels of EBV antigens, or ENBA titers.
The investigators found that among patients with MS, anti-EBNA titers were much higher among smokers than among nonsmokers. In addition, the increased risk of MS associated with anti-EBNA was stronger among those who had ever smoked (odds ratio [OR], 3.9; 95% confidence interval [CI], 2.7 – 5.7) compared with never smokers (OR, 1.8; 95% CI, 1.4 – 2.3; P value for interaction = .001).

To my knowledge, there is not a well-described causative mechanism linking smoking and MS,” she said. “Possible mechanisms, such as neurotoxicity and immunomodulatory effects, have been suggested, but there is limited data on this topic.”

Asked for comment on these findings, Lily Jung, MD, with the Swedish Neuroscience Institute, in Seattle, Washington, added that recent studies show that not only does smoking increase risk of developing MS, it also increases magnetic resonance imaging lesion volume and brain atrophy and leads to faster progression of the disease.

Smoking decreases oxygen and increases hypoxia. Hypoxia activates EBV. Seems like a potential link to me.
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Post by kibibikel » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:56 pm

Thanks for the links!!

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Post by jimmylegs » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:26 pm

an interesting case report linking EBV infection and selenium status (another nutrient known to be low in MS)

Cardiomyopathy associated with nonendemic selenium deficiency in a Caucasian

i noted with interest table 2 in the pdf file, re glutathione peroxidase activity correlated with selenium status.

a close family friend in 20s is just climbing out of a 2yr+ bout with chronic EBV infection. we seem to have fought it off using nutrients, with anti-viral selenium in the mix.

the selenium and ms connection:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract
"The Se content of whole blood was low (52.8 ± 11.3 ng/ml) in MS patients from this high-risk area compared to the controls (68.8 ± 11.0)."

by comparison, while supplementing selenium at 200 mcg/d, my levels taken a few yrs ago came back as follows:

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens- ... tml#p64473
"my selenium is a little high at 2.28 µmol/L or 180 µg/L, so i can back off on that for a while."

ng/ml works out to the same as ug/l so my levels were more than triple those seen in the ms patients in the study, and over twice as high as the controls.

to allay any toxicity concerns:

A report of high-dose selenium supplementation: response and toxicities
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 2X04000112
"Based on previous studies, intakes of 400 μg/day and plasma selenium of 1000 ng/ml ...were established as the no observed adverse effect level (NOAEL)."
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Post by blossom » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:43 am

"thought this is worth a read for those wanting to try the natural way-long read but worth it-maybe some are aware some not."

Allium sativum: Antibiotic and Immune Properties
by Paul Bergner

Bergner, Paul. The Healing Power of Garlic. Rocklin, CA: Prima Publishing, 1995


The previous herbs I have described have primarily worked to strengthen the body’s natural defenses against infection rather than attacking microorganisms themselves. Garlic also does this, but with garlic, we have a plant that is a true antibiotic. It can effectively kill bacteria, viruses, parasites, fungi, yeasts, and molds, including many that cause serious disease in humans.

Garlic as an antibiotic

Garlic is a broad spectrum antibiotic, killing a wide variety of bacteria. Many pharmaceutical antibiotics kill only a narrow range of these germs. Dr. Tariq Abdullah, a prominent garlic researcher stated in the August 1987 issue of Prevention: “Garlic has the broadest spectrum of any antimicrobial substance that we know of — it is antibacterial, antifungal, antiparasitic, antiprotozoan and antiviral.” Table 16.1 shows some of the organisms that researchers have found garlic to be effective against. This property belongs to the garlic constituent allicin, which is released when you cut a garlic clove. This is the chemical that gives fresh garlic its strong biting flavor, and you need to use fresh garlic to get a reliable antibiotic effect. Commercial powders and other products will not work for direct applications. Garlic appears to have antibiotic activity whether taken internally or applied topically — researchers found that the urine and blood serum of human subjects taking garlic had activity against fungi (Caporaso et al 1983).

Table 16.1

Some bacteria, viruses, fungi, mold, and parasites killed or inhibited by garlic or its constituents

Acinetobacter calcoaceticus

Aspergillus flavus

Aspergillus fumigatus

Aspergillus parasiticus

Aspergillus niger

Bacillus cereus

Candida albicans

Candida lipolytica

Cryptococcus neoformans


Debaryomyces hansenii

Escherichia coli

Hansenula anomala

Herpes simplex virus type 1

Herpes simplex virus type 2

Histoplasma capsulatum

Human cytomegalovirus (HCMV)

Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)

Human rhinovirus type 2

Influenza B

Kloeckera apiculata

Lodderomyces elongisporus

Parainfluenza virus type 3

Vaccinia virus

Vesicular stomatitis virus

Micrococcus luteus

Mycobacterium phlei

Mycobacterium tuberculosis

Paracoccidioides brasiliensis

Pneumocystis carinii

Proteus vulgaris

Pseudomonas aeruginosa

Rhodotorula rubra

Saccharomyces cerevisiae

Salmonella typhimurium

Salmonella typhimurium

Shigella dysenteriae

Shigella flexneri

Staphylococcus aureus

Streptococcus faecalis

Torulopsis glabrata

Toxoplasma gondii

Vibrio parahaemolyticus

(Sources: Adetumbi et al 1983, 1986; Anesini and Perez 1993; Appleton and Tansey 1975; Borukh et al 1974, 1975; Chen et al 1985; Conner and Beuchat 1984; Dankert et al 1979; Didry et al 1987; Fletcher et al 1974; Fliermans 1973; Fromtling and Bulmer 1978; Ghannoum 1990; Gonzales-Fandos et al 1994; Johnson and Vaughn 1969; Kabelik 1970; Kumar and Sharma 1982; Mahajan 1983; Moore and Atkins 1977; Sandhu et al 1980; Sharma et al 1977;Shashikanth et al 1984; Tynecka and Gos 1973, 1975)

Resistant bacteria

A major problem with pharmaceutical antibiotics is that they can promote the development of resistant strains of bacteria. Initially the antibiotic kills most of the bacteria being attacked. With repeated exposure, however, those few bacteria that by chance are genetically resistant to the antibiotic begin to multiply. Eventually a recurring infection becomes completely resistant to that antibiotic. After a half century of the massive use of antibiotics, and the indiscriminate over-prescription of them in North America, potentially serious medical problems exist from resistant strains of bacteria. Garlic does not seem to produce such resistant strains, and may be effective against strains that have become resistant to pharmaceutical antibiotics. European researchers in the late 1970s tested garlic juice against a group of ten different bacteria and yeasts (Moore and Atkins 1977). They found that garlic was effective against all of them, and also found a “complete absence of development of resistance.” In an Indian study of garlic for dysentery, the researchers specifically selected four bacterial strains that were resistant to multiple antibiotics (Chowdhury et al 1991).

Garlic is effective against specific bacteria that are notorious for developing resistant strains, such as staphylococcus, mycobacterium, salmonella, and species of Proteus.

Antiviral activity

A weakness of conventional antibiotics is that they are not effective against viral infections. That’s why they won’t work against the common cold or flu. They also won’t work against some serious viral infections like viral meningitis, viral pneumonia, or herpes infections. Garlic or its constituents will directly kill influenza, herpes, vaccinia (cowpox), vesicular stomatitis virus (responsible for cold sores), and human cytomegalovirus (a common source of secondary infection in AIDS.) Garlic will also cure or improve the symptoms of a variety of viral diseases in humans or animals. In one animal study, researchers first fed a garlic extract to mice. They then introduced the flu virus into the nasal passages of the animals. Those animals that had received the garlic were protected from the flu, while the untreated animals all got sick. The researchers postulated that garlic’s effect was due in part to direct antiviral effects of garlic, and in part to stimulation of the immune system (Adetumbi and Lau, 1983)

Parasites and fungi

The medical missionary Albert Schweitzer brought some fame to garlic earlier this century when he used it successfully to treat amoebic dysentery in his patients in equatorial Africa. Subsequent experiments have shown garlic to be effective not only against the parasitic amoebas that cause dysentery, but against other organisms such as toxoplasma, cryptosporidia, and pneumocystis, all of which cause disease in humans.

Parasitic infections are a common problem in AIDS patients. Dr. Subhuti Dharmananda, Director of the Immune Enhancement Project in Portland, Oregon, regularly treats AIDS patients with such opportunistic infections. The main antibiotic therapy he uses in garlic, at about nine cloves a day for active infections, and he finds it effective to prevent or treat these infections, even when conventional antibiotics have failed to do so. Note that he started out trying to use an encapsulated form of garlic standardized for its allicin content — one of the better products. He found, however, that even doses of twenty-seven capsules a day had no effect on the infections. When he switched to raw garlic at the same dose, he got the desired result (Dharmananda 1995). Recent research supports use for intestinal parasites in AIDS (AIDS Research Alliance 1996; Deshpande et al 1993).

Yeast infections

If you’ve ever had athlete’s foot, you know how stubborn a yeast or fungal infection can be. A garlic wash can be very effective against fungi externally, but garlic can also treat systemic fungal infections. Researchers from the University of New Mexico demonstrated that garlic was effective both in the test tube and in animals against infection with the fungus Cryptococcus neoformans. Chinese researchers also have shown that garlic as a intravenous extract can be effective against cryptococcal meningitis. The blood and cerebrospinal fluid of the patients in that trial was twice as effective against the fungus as before treatment with garlic.

How to use garlic

To use garlic as an antibiotic take it internally and, if appropriate, apply it directly to an infection. For internal use, try one of the following forms:

Garlic infused wine. Chop or crush garlic, cover with wine, and let it sit overnight.

Garlic vinegar. Same as above, but use vinegar instead of water.

Garlic honey. Same as above, but with honey. No added water is needed. This makes a great antibiotic cough syrup.

Garlic/carrot juice. Blend three cloves of garlic up in six ounces of carrot juice. Let it sit for four to six hours.

For external application, use caution putting crushed garlic directly against the skin, because it can cause burns. Here are some forms you can use for direct application of garlic as an antibiotic:

Blend up three cloves of garlic in a quart of water and apply as a wash. Make a larger amount of this mixture and use it as a sitz bath or foot bath for infections of the feet or pelvic area.

Crush garlic, and dilute the juice with ten part of water. Use it as nose drops or a gargle.

Garlic and the immune system

Although garlic attacks bacteria, viruses, and other microorganisms directly, it also stimulates the body’s natural defenses against these invaders. Garlic’s remarkable and legendary power against infectious diseases is due to a combination of both these properties.

Garlic or its constituents activate phagocytes, B-Cells, and T-cells — all three levels of the cellular immune system. For instance, diallyl trisulfide, a constituent of garlic, was found to activate natural killer cells and macrophages directly, and indirectly to increase B-cell activity to make antibodies. It did this in lab experiments at concentrations of as low as one microgram per ml — the equivalent of a tiny pinch of salt in about 30 gallons of water. The macrophages in this trial were then tested for their activity against cancer cells, and the diallyl-trisulfide-treated cells were more active than regular macrophages, indicating that not only their number but their activity was increased (Feng et al 1994). This same effect has been reproduced in other experiments.

This effect is not limited to trials in a test tube. Dr. Abdullah experimented with garlic in AIDS, giving the equivalent of two cloves a day of garlic to ten patients for six weeks, and the equivalent of four cloves for another six weeks. Three of the patients could not complete the trial, but of the seven who did, all showed normal natural killer cell activity by the end of the trial — activity which had been depressed at the start of the trial. The patients’ opportunistic infections — chronic diarrhea, candida infection, genital herpes, and a chronic sinus infection — all improved. The patient with the chronic sinus infection had gained no relief from antibiotics during more than a year of treatment before the garlic trial (Abdullah 1989).

In one trial, immune parameters of the blood were measured after subjects — elderly patients — took a garlic powder preparation for three months (Brosche and Platt, 1993, 1994). The dose was only 600 mg of the powder per day, the equivalent of less than one-third of a garlic clove. Blood tests showed an increase in phagocytosis of the white blood cells, and also increased numbers of lymphocytes, responsible for cell-mediated immunity. Other trials have shown that garlic can increase the activity of natural-killer cells in healthy volunteers (Kandil et al, 1987, 1988).

A connoisseur’s garlic cocktail

Different solvents extract and promote specific chemical reactions between the constituents of garlic. Water, vinegar, alcohol, and oil each draw specific constituents out. Alcohol and water, for instance, is the best solvent to extract allicin. Soaking crushed garlic in oil promotes the production of ajoenes and dithiins, important antibiotic and blood-thinning constituents of garlic. My garlic “cocktail,” then, is as follows.

Three cloves of garlic

1 Tbls of red wine

1 Tbls of vinegar

1 Tbls of olive oil

Blend well in a blender.

Add 1/4 cup hot water.

Let stand for 3 hours. Do not strain. Add one-third of this to a cup of hot water. Take another dose every 3-6 hours until it is all gone.

On paper this sounds a little like drinking salad dressing, but I find this to be a pleasant stimulating tonic with a sharp taste. Raw garlic cloves upset my intestines, but this does not.

Table 16.2

Some conditions that can be effectively treated with garlic

Note: Crushed garlic applied directly to the skin can cause burns.

Bites and Stings Apply crushed and moistened garlic directly to the bite or sting

Bronchitis Use raw garlic in one of the forms listed above

Candida infection Use both internal and external applications if appropriate

Common Cold Take internally

Diarrhea and Dysentery Take internally

Ear Infections Soak crushed garlic in oil, and apply the oil directly to the ear.

Fungal Infections Apply garlic oil directly, blend up garlic in warm water to make a soak or compress. Also take internally.

Herpes Take fresh garlic orally, and apply garlic blended in a little water directly to the sore.

Infections Take garlic internally and apply directly to an infected wound.

Influenza Take internally at the first threat of exposure.

Parasites Blend three cloves in a palatable medium and take internally, three times a day, for a total of nine cloves.

Vaginal Infection Use a douche, with three garlic cloves blended in a quart of water. Strain through cheesecloth first to remove the solid matter.
Copyright 2001 Paul Bergner

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Post by jimmylegs » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:27 pm

tons of great info on garlic:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... ce&dbid=60
"In addition to being a good source of selenium, garlic may be a more reliable source as well. Garlic is what scientists call a "seleniferous" plant: it can uptake selenium from the soil even when soil concentrations do not favor this uptake."

garlic has vit C and B6 and a few other things too.

aside: 'excellent' sources of selenium include: Crimini Mushrooms, Cod, Mustard Seeds, Shrimp, Tuna, Halibut and Salmon
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