all things magnesium

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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:44 pm

hi there mick, serum mag looks low normal which is consistent with MS, FM and CFS.

since mag deficiency is known to occur within the normal range, to match healthy controls, you're better off aiming for 2.3-2.7 (or even higher).

which are your highest mag dense foods eaten daily or several times a week?

does your daily mag intake in mgs = 7-10 mg/kg body weight? if not, how close are you getting?

do you supplement with magnesium? if so, what dose per pill? what chemical form of mag?

any other supplements in the picture?

do you have many other test results handy? i'm curious re serum selenium and zinc if you have them - because yeast + high ferritin (how high iima?) +liver enzymes + graves + herpes) suggest these could be worth a look in
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:13 pm

<font=sarcastica> another "useless serum magnesium" study </font>

STUDY OF SERUM MAGNESIUM IN CHRONIC OBSTRUCTIVE PULMONARY DISEASE (2017)
fft: https://wwjournals.com/index.php/pijr/a ... ew/221/216

from the above link you can access a PDF version

note in Table 3 serum magnesium levels in all groups of patients

only 'healthy smokers' have serum magnesium levels GREATER THAN 2.5 MG/DL IE ABOVE 'NORMAL'

meanwhile, when we DROP into the upper normal range (2.0-2.5 mg/dl), both stable and exacerbating COPD cases appear.

below 2.0 mg/dl, ie everything left of dead centre 'normal' range, we see no more 'healthy smokers'. only COPD whether active or stable.

in summary, quit smoking. and eat yer mag.
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by THX1138 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:25 pm

The Scottsdale Magnesium Study Results | #ScienceSaturday


http://www.jigsawhealth.com/blog/the-sc ... ec0805193c

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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:25 pm

take control of your own health
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:17 am

update re http://www.thisisms.com/forum/natural-a ... ml#p246669

they didn't specify the patient's d3 intake in the full text.

this is about as close as they got to unpacking it any further:

"In addition to oral and parenteral supplementation we also recommended to our patient to increase dietary intake of magnesium. Magnesium is widely distributed in plant and animal foods and in beverages. Green leafy vegetables, such as spinach, legumes, nuts, seeds, and whole grains, are good sources. In general, foods containing dietary fiber provide magnesium [27,28]. Fish is also considered rich in Mg, while consumption of fatty food, salt, vitamin D, proteins and calcium increases the need for Mg [29]."

fwiw #29 is this:

Efstratiadis G, Sarigianni M, Gougourelas I. Hypomagnesemia and cardiovascular system. Hippokratia. 2006 Oct-Dec;10(4):147–152.
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by THX1138 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:22 pm

The multifaceted and widespread pathology of magnesium deficiency.
Johnson S1.
Author information
Abstract
Even though Mg is by far the least abundant serum electrolyte, it is extremely important for the metabolism of Ca, K, P, Zn, Cu, Fe, Na, Pb, Cd, HCl, acetylcholine, and nitric oxide (NO), for many enzymes, for the intracellular homeostasis and for activation of thiamine and therefore, for a very wide gamut of crucial body functions. Unfortunately, Mg absorption and elimination depend on a very large number of variables, at least one of which often goes awry, leading to a Mg deficiency that can present with many signs and symptoms. Mg absorption requires plenty of Mg in the diet, Se, parathyroid hormone (PTH) and vitamins B6 and D. Furthermore, it is hindered by excess fat. On the other hand, Mg levels are decreased by excess ethanol, salt, phosphoric acid (sodas) and coffee intake, by profuse sweating, by intense, prolonged stress, by excessive menstruation and vaginal flux, by diuretics and other drugs and by certain parasites (pinworms). The very small probability that all the variables affecting Mg levels will behave favorably, results in a high probability of a gradually intensifying Mg deficiency. It is highly regrettable that the deficiency of such an inexpensive, low-toxicity nutrient result in diseases that cause incalculable suffering and expense throughout the world. The range of pathologies associated with Mg deficiency is staggering: hypertension (cardiovascular disease, kidney and liver damage, etc.), peroxynitrite damage (migraine, multiple sclerosis, glaucoma, Alzheimer's disease, etc.), recurrent bacterial infection due to low levels of nitric oxide in the cavities (sinuses, vagina, middle ear, lungs, throat, etc.), fungal infections due to a depressed immune system, thiamine deactivation (low gastric acid, behavioral disorders, etc.), premenstrual syndrome, Ca deficiency (osteoporosis, hypertension, mood swings, etc.), tooth cavities, hearing loss, diabetes type II, cramps, muscle weakness, impotence (lack of NO), aggression (lack of NO), fibromas, K deficiency (arrhythmia, hypertension, some forms of cancer), Fe accumulation, etc. Finally, because there are so many variables involved in the Mg metabolism, evaluating the effect of Mg in many diseases has frustrated many researchers who have simply tried supplementation with Mg, without undertaking the task of ensuring its absorption and preventing excessive elimination, rendering the study of Mg deficiency much more difficult than for most other nutrients.

PMID: 11425281 DOI: 10.1054/mehy.2000.1133
[Indexed for MEDLINE]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11425281


- A doctor told me that people with MS are magnesium wasters.

- I've experienced, repeatedly, how helpful magnesium is for me.

- Friends and family have experienced the benefits of magnesium, also.

- I've read much about how most people don't get the required amount of magnesium and that many health problems are caused by this.



So, basically, I know that magnesium is extremely important and useful for health.

It's just that this article seems, perhaps, overly enthusiastic about magnesium.
But then again, maybe not... I just don't know enough.

I am aware that many of the ailments listed in the article are known to be caused by insufficient magnesium. But, really, all of them :?:

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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:31 am

has appeared in many discussions here at tims https://bit.ly/2F6RN5z

it was published before the journal's review standards were updated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Hypotheses
'...Elsevier forced a change in the journal's leadership. In June 2010, Elsevier announced that "Submitted manuscripts will be reviewed by the Editor and external reviewers to ensure their scientific merit" '

http://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch. ... id&clean=0
Medical Hypotheses takes a deliberately different approach to review: the editor sees his role as a chooser, not a changer, choosing to publish what are judged to be the best papers from those submitted. The Editor sometimes uses external referees to inform his opinion on a paper, but their role is as an information source and the Editor choice is final. The papers chosen may contain radical ideas, but may be judged acceptable so long as they are coherent and clearly expressed. The authors responsibility for the integrity, precision and accuracy of their work is paramount.
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:34 am

jimmylegs wrote:Magnesium in Prevention and Therapy
http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/7/9/5388/htm
Dietary surveys of people in Europe and in the United States still reveal that intakes of magnesium are lower than the recommended amounts [20,21,22]. ... In a European study, magnesium deficiency was determined clinically and compared with the serum magnesium concentration. It was found that in individuals with serum magnesium level of 0.70 mmol/L, 90% of the individuals had clinical magnesium deficiency and at a cut off magnesium level of 0.75 mmol/L, 50% of individuals had clinical magnesium deficiency. At a cut off level of 0.80 mmol/L, 10% of individuals had clinical magnesium deficiency and at a cut off of 0.90 mmol/L, only 1% of the individuals had clinical magnesium deficiency [55].

so aiming higher than 0.90 would be wise to keep clear of whatever the study above considers clinical evidence of deficiency... considering that older studies recommend at least 0.95 and studies examining 'healthy controls' in particular, average serum levels can be still higher.
snapshot canada 2012-13

Serum Magnesium Concentrations in the Canadian Population and Associations with Diabetes, Glycemic Regulation, and Insulin Resistance (2017)
fft.........http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/9/3/296/htm
Table 1...https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... objectonly

wow. only for the 95th percentile (top 5%), and for just two confidence intervals therein (those given for all 3-5 yrs and women 60-79) do subjects manage to get a whiff of the 0.95 mmol/l lower cutoff suggested in other research.
and dropping back to the 90th percentile (top 10%) it's only in two cohorts (1 male 1 female) that you see a mean serum level estimate meeting the 0.90 mmol/l lower cutoff associated in 'magnesium in prevention and therapy' above, with *almost* entire (99%) exclusion of mag deficiency symptoms.

a nation of suboptimal serum mag levels, yet all 'normal'. and naturally this study is concerned only with those coming in below the atrocious 0.75 mmol/l serum mag concentration.
never mind folks just take your meds, there's a good little client/consumer.
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2018 review: magnesum/cardiovascular illness/health crisis

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:41 am

'suboptimal magnesium deficiency' um ok peer review crew...
also, let's update that range for serum magnesium, shall we!?!!

Subclinical magnesium deficiency: a principal driver of cardiovascular disease and a public health crisis (2018)
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/1/e000668
Abstract
Because serum magnesium does not reflect intracellular magnesium, the latter making up more than 99% of total body magnesium, most cases of magnesium deficiency are undiagnosed. Furthermore, because of chronic diseases, medications, decreases in food crop magnesium contents, and the availability of refined and processed foods, the vast majority of people in modern societies are at risk for magnesium deficiency. Certain individuals will need to supplement with magnesium in order to prevent suboptimal magnesium deficiency, especially if trying to obtain an optimal magnesium status to prevent chronic disease. Subclinical magnesium deficiency increases the risk of numerous types of cardiovascular disease, costs nations around the world an incalculable amount of healthcare costs and suffering, and should be considered a public health crisis. That an easy, cost-effective strategy exists to prevent and treat subclinical magnesium deficiency should provide an urgent call to action.
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2017 review: Magnesium as an Alternative/Adjunct to Opioids

Post by jimmylegs » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:10 pm

having just listened to a radio show about patients weaning off prescribed opioids, and being frustrated throughout that nutrition never got a mention (again), i am so happy that this piece of writing exists. can i get full text? no. but at least it exists.

Magnesium as an Alternative or Adjunct to Opioids for Migraine and Chronic Pain: A Review of the Clinical Effectiveness and Guidelines (2017)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29334449

Excerpt
Migraine and chronic pain are common disorders and can result in considerable disability.1 According to the World Health Organization, migraine is ranked 19th with respect to health disorders causing life lived with disability. The lifetime prevalence of migraine in Canada has been estimated to be 24% in women and 9% in men. Chronic pain is defined as pain that persists for greater than three months.2 Chronic pain is associated with a variety of disorders such as chronic low back pain, chronic complex regional pain syndrome (CPRS), fibromyalgia and neuropathy. Estimates of the prevalence of chronic pain in Canada vary between 16% and 40%.3 The variability may be due to differences in the definitions used for chronic pain, sample populations surveyed, and the survey methodologies.3 Treatment for migraine can be divided into two broad categories: acute treatment for migraine attacks and prophylactic treatment to reduce the frequency of migraine attacks.3,4 Treatment of any type of pain is complex and the best options for treatment still remain unresolved. Increasingly, opioids are being used for the alleviation of pain.5 However, long term use of opioids can lead to addiction, development of tolerance, and resistance of chronic pain to opioid analgesia. In addition, it is associated with side-effects such as chronic constipation, dizziness, consciousness disorders, and cognitive impairment.5 Hence other modalities for managing pain are needed. Magnesium plays an important physiological role and affects a number of processes. It is the fourth most abundant cation in the body,6 and is involved in regulation of protein synthesis, energy production, cell growth, and RNA and DNA synthesis.6 Magnesium modulates ion transport by pumps, carriers and channels and can impact signal transduction.6 Magnesium acts as a N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonist and blocks the NMDA receptor, resulting in its analgesic effect.5,6 Activation of the NMDA receptor plays a role in central sensitization and is associated with spontaneous pain and increased reaction to peripheral stimuli.6,7 As magnesium appears to have an analgesic effect there is growing interest in investigating whether magnesium can be used as an alternative or as an adjunct to opioids for controlling pain. The purpose of this report is to review the clinical effectiveness of magnesium as an analgesic for the treatment of adult patients with migraine or chronic pain. Additionally, this report aims to review evidence-based guidelines regarding the use of magnesium as an analgesic for the treatment of adult patients with migraine
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Re: 2017 study: desalinated water = lower serum mag

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:38 pm

Association between exposure to desalinated sea water and ischemic heart disease, diabetes mellitus and colorectal cancer; A population-based study in Israel (2018)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 511830358X

Highlights
• The production and consumption of desalinated seawater is rapidly growing globally.
• Studies of adverse health effects from consuming desalinated seawater with absent magnesium are limited.
• We found increased risk for ischemic heart disease in population exposed to desalinated seawater.
• Diabetes mellitus and colorectal cancer risks were unchanged. Long-term studies are required.
• The higher risk for ischemic heart disease implies adding magnesium to desalinated seawater.
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by zen2010 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:16 am

Hi,

As nowadays, I feel really weak (like my muscles are down), I realized I might take too much magnesium (600 mg per day since last July).
Also, I have to admit I don't monitor how much mag I am having from food, so I am not 100% sure the problem comes from Mg.
But, this could be the reason...
Last blood test result in July :Mag=0.89 mmol/L.
With 600mg supplementation per day since July+ mag from food, I believe, today, I am much over 0.89 mmol/L.

So, I will stop Mg until my next blood test in February and see what happens.

This is not a message to just tell about my life, it's a kind warning to people who may be taking too much supplements.

Cheers

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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:32 am

i've posted about this specific possible side effect (sluggish muscles) at least 10 times (including in your topic this past feb) and i am pretty sure NHE has too - but it is possible this specific side effect has not made it into this very logical spot.

sounds logical that 600 mg supplemental mag in addition to an unknown amount from food could be reason to suspect excess. when sluggish muscles happened to me, i had so much mag in diet that i couldn't take more than one supplemental mag pill per day. at the time with that brand it meant i could not go from adding an extra 100mg to adding an extra 200 mg per day.
since then, i don't pile in high mag food to the same extent and i can definitely deal with two mag pills per day, using a diff brand which delivers 200 mg per powder cap. so where i couldn't add an extra 100mg before, totalling 200mg extra mag per day, i can comfortably add 400mg per day now. i did a solid hike yesterday, down into a deep river valley and out again. no problem. when extra mag made me feel it years ago now, i figured it out just climbing a flight of stairs.

re your plan - if you drop supplemental magnesium altogether, for five months on end, does that mean you also plan to drop supplemental vitamin d3 for the same time period? if no, how much d3 do you plan to take daily without magnesium?
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by zen2010 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:31 am

jimmylegs wrote:i've posted about this specific possible side effect (sluggish muscles) at least 10 times (including in your topic this past feb) and i am pretty sure NHE has too - but it is possible this specific side effect has not made it into this very logical spot.
My bad
I haven't read the whole thread.
Also, I forgot your comment in my topic in February. Sorry, memory issue is one of my symptoms.
jimmylegs wrote:re your plan - if you drop supplemental magnesium altogether, for five months on end, does that mean you also plan to drop supplemental vitamin d3 for the same time period? if no, how much d3 do you plan to take daily without magnesium?
I guess I will have to decrease my daily UI3000 => can you pls advice here?


Thks

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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:45 am

hey it's not like i remembered. i just know what words i'm likely to use to describe this issue, and searching the forum revealed a related post in your thread in feb 2018.
i'm no memory magician lol (other than when nutrient status was bad, that increasing blood flow helped. that was specifically on the premise of increasing 'oxygen and nutrient delivery to starved tissues'. blood flow strategies do nothing for memory now that nutrient status is fixed - which in my case was largely a zinc issue).

as for next steps in your case, i think it's a matter of tweaking the d3 / mag interaction. in the time period leading up to your recent symptoms, have you:

- increased supplemental mag amounts while maintaining supplemental d3 amounts? OR
- maintained mag but decreased d3? OR
- increased mag *and* decreased d3?

depending what the last change was (if any), that would help inform logical next steps. for instance if some time ago, you upped daily mag from 400mg to 600mg because of symptoms of d3 excess/imbalance at 3000IU d3 per day, then dropping extra daily mag to zero might be problematic.

remind me how much mag you get in one pill? as mentioned above, i get 200mg in mine. if yours is the same and you can drop back to 2x200mg per day, and within each day taking 1x200mg *with* d3 and 1x200mg well away from d3, that could help.
if you test mag reduction and symptoms of excess d3 reappear, you could either go back to 600 mg mag for a while, or drop the d3 to 2000 iu/d.

longer term, maybe it's a matter of taking a weekly perspective. eg if 3000IU d3 stays the same, then you could perhaps take weekends off from mag on a 600mg per day routine, or take weekends off from d3 on a 400mg mag per day routine. or something along those lines.

it's too bad you couldn't get a snapshot of both serum d3 and serum magnesium right now while you're feeling this way. that could really help take the guesswork out of tweaking the regimen!
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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