Paleo Diet discussion

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet
tedhutchinson
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by tedhutchinson » 6 years ago

CaveMan wrote:I firmly believe it is like the car crash analogy, there is not a singular item and we should not just be looking for the singular item relating to a specific autoimmune condition, but what are the conditions that open an opportunity for an autoimmune condition to present.
Which is why I think we've got to go back to basics and start from the best estimation we can make of the circumstances in which our DNA evolved. We shouldn't get too nerdy about it, However much I go on about the benefits of full body sun exposure I don't take it to extremes. Sure we must recognise the importance of good quality sleep but we all want to enjoy life and entertain friends so compromises have to be made. I think if you just look at the drugs side of MS treatment you are not doing the best you can, in the same way if you look at diabetes, heart disease pharmaceutical procedures they aren't necessarily in the patients best interests and piling one drug regime on another doesn't mean the outcome is regarding Quality of Life or Mortality is any better. You just spend a lot more money and enjoy more side effects.
That said I still think it's worth making the effort to try to keep up with what the latest thinking is an applying common sense as to whether it's likely to achieve anything and also consider if their are other ways of achieving the same objective.
But back to the car analogy.
If we want our car to run optimally and reliably then the starting point is the makers recommendations and specifications. We don't have that for the human body BUT we can and should consider the human evolutionary process and make our understanding of that the starting point for optimal sun/bright light exposure, Vitamin D, magnesium, omega 3 ratio, melatonin levels.

CaveMan
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by CaveMan » 6 years ago

tedhutchinson wrote: But back to the car analogy.
If we want our car to run optimally and reliably then the starting point is the makers recommendations and specifications. We don't have that for the human body BUT we can and should consider the human evolutionary process and make our understanding of that the starting point for optimal sun/bright light exposure, Vitamin D, magnesium, omega 3 ratio, melatonin levels.
Agreed and in addition not just the diet, but also the sleep wake circadian rythms, the seasonaly and weekly variation in eating habits.
I read a lot about the issues with Fructose restrictions and Candida etc and thought why doesn't this fit with my Paleo ideals, then realised it does, the issue isn't eating fruit, it is about daily consumption which promotes overgrowth scenarios, but our ancesters would have had seasonal variation and likely gone at least 3 months without significant fruit consumption, this would rest the gut, flush the yeasts and reset the candida clock every year.
So there would be other dietary factors that would also need to conform to the boom bust cycle for optimum gut health.
No harm in a feast, so long as we do touch on some famine (not extreme) as well, and on that note there is also an important aspect of the immune system which is only activated by significant hunger, cant remember exact detail, but obviously most of us have not exercised that part of us since birth.
I am just an interested individual trying to crack the autoimmune nut.
Partner has Graves Disease, 5 years, showing good test results, looking forward to potential remission in the near future.
3 friends have MS, 1 just recently diagnosed, severity 7/10.

CaveMan
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by CaveMan » 6 years ago

Just stumbled on this Video on MS and Paleo Diet - Loren Cordain and sponsored by Direct MS.
1st half he outlines paleo diet story, but the second half is a bit more meaty and he goes into the etiology of MS and his Hypothesis for how diet contributes to the manifestation of MS

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5296745403
I am just an interested individual trying to crack the autoimmune nut.
Partner has Graves Disease, 5 years, showing good test results, looking forward to potential remission in the near future.
3 friends have MS, 1 just recently diagnosed, severity 7/10.

tedhutchinson
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Posts: 45
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by tedhutchinson » 6 years ago

CaveMan wrote:Just stumbled on this Video on MS and Paleo Diet - Loren Cordain and sponsored by Direct MS.
1st half he outlines paleo diet story, but the second half is a bit more meaty and he goes into the etiology of MS and his Hypothesis for how diet contributes to the manifestation of MS
I think we have to also include VITAMIN D from UVB (lifestyle) and food sources (oily vitamin D/omega 3 doesn't just come from sea fish) Melatonin (from lack of light at night and bright light exposure during the day) Higher Magnesium (from organically grown foods grown without NPK fertilizers)
We have to see the diet/lifestyle as basically anti inflammatory while todays basic diet/lifestyle promotes inflammation.

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jimmylegs
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by jimmylegs » 6 years ago

haven't seen it, but e-zackly re vit d3, omega 3 fatty acids, and good ol' magnesium (which also helps with melatonin status)! did it say anything much about zinc in there?
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

CaveMan
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by CaveMan » 6 years ago

Here's an interview transcript on the type of mechanism he is talking about, this time in the context of general autoimmune issues.
http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/11/ ... -triggers/

Basically it starts with WGA or other plant lectins, they have the ability to bind the epidermal growth factor receptor in the intestinal wall, this provides the lock and key to gain entry to the bloodstream, the autoimmunity is triggered basically like the Immunisation process. The WGA also binds to bacterial peptides present in the gut, this forms a mega molecule, the bacterial peptides have similar molecular strings to body tissues and the WGA being an irritant causes an inflamation response, like an adjunct in vaccines, the T-Cells are then programmed with the molecular pattern of the bacterial peptide and go out to unleash havok on the body.
There is obviously more to it, I think it is worthy of some consideration.
I am just an interested individual trying to crack the autoimmune nut.
Partner has Graves Disease, 5 years, showing good test results, looking forward to potential remission in the near future.
3 friends have MS, 1 just recently diagnosed, severity 7/10.

Pesho
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by Pesho » 6 years ago

Guys, some help needed :). Trying to do Paleo, but I also started weightlifting again. The problem is, well, I just don't know what and how much to eat. I believe that too much meat is not very good also, but I don't think there is choice with Paleo and not eating a lot of meat? Currently 110kg. weight, want to reduce it at least with 10-15kg. For now energy levels are good to be honest. Any articles anywhere on weightlifting, paleo diet and MS? Or I'm just asking too much :).

CaveMan
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by CaveMan » 6 years ago

Try "Marks Daily Apple"
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/forum.php
It's a very active Primal/Paleo Forum, has many different individuals all seeking better health, some from MS, some GI issues, weight loss or just getting stronger and healthier in general.
I am just an interested individual trying to crack the autoimmune nut.
Partner has Graves Disease, 5 years, showing good test results, looking forward to potential remission in the near future.
3 friends have MS, 1 just recently diagnosed, severity 7/10.

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jimmylegs
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by jimmylegs » 6 years ago

hehe those come across my news feed on facebook all the time.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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erinc14
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by erinc14 » 6 years ago

i've been told i had ms because i'm vegetarian , because i had amalgam fillings , because i had a root canal , because i ate gluten , yada, yada, yada. i also had a nutritionist tell me i wasn't getting better because psychology i didn't want to get better .

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jimmylegs
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by jimmylegs » 6 years ago

and what is your situation symptom-wise? have you had any nutritional bloodwork done?
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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erinc14
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Location: Montreal

Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by erinc14 » 6 years ago

i'm a quadraphonic living in a nursing home . the only thing that has made sense in my 18 years with ms is ccsvi.

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jimmylegs
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by jimmylegs » 6 years ago

i'll take that as a no.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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erinc14
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by erinc14 » 6 years ago

btw, what do they look for in this blood work ?

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jimmylegs
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Re: Paleo Diet discussion

Post by jimmylegs » 6 years ago

there's a body of research out there that allows comparison between the nutritional status of a typical ms patient, and a typical healthy control. this kind of analysis usually falls outside the scope of mainstream medicine because it is done at a smaller scale than the usual 'normal' ranges. therefore 'they' don't often bother to look for much at all. it's all on the patient and having the ability to get a test and get a copy of the results and analyze them using ranges given in research for healthy controls, not the MUCH broader 'normal' ranges.

for a well studied selection of nutrients, it's known that ms patients tend to have lower status compared to controls. for others, ms patients might have elevated levels. i've seen far less of the latter.

i wrote a bunch about these nutrients here: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens- ... c2489.html

this one goes to how the malnutrition issue can be intergenerational, links to congenital deformity etc:
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... ml#p196765

go to scholar.google.com and search terms
congenital malnutrition
there's lots there...

links to ccsvi...
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... ml#p196635

interesting stuff!
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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