Gee Lyon, didn't you read my last post on your Malden thread?
I had hoped I wouldn't have to keep bringing up your past here... you know... moving forward, second chances and all... but I can keep dragging your past behind you wherever you go if you'd like
It's really simple to tell if a new trouble-maker happens to be Lyon:
You only get one, for now...
Lyon is also Daisy3
Liberation or Placebo Effect (article)
hmmmm ... ummmm ... are you saying I'm Lyon?HappyPoet wrote:Lyon,
Is this really you???
Sheesh. How many usernames do you use anyway???
Tell Zap I saw through his charade immediately -- did he like what he learned? Huh, Zap? Tell us what you learned from me about Lyon that you really liked. And why didn't you ever get back to me, anyway?
Lyon, you don't want me chasing you out of every thread you start under a fake name or away from every post you make, do you?
Gosh, that's WAY more compelling than a decent argument.
well that's my problem with the neuros. To me all I hear is name calling, premature judgement and hysteria. I really want science.
I've hear it proposed that ms causes ccsvi. That is a theory I would like to hear more about. All I hear is that there is proof that ms is autoimmune but I don't SEE the papers, or hear the logic.
So by asking the ccsvi side to put forth science and not doing so themselves I can't help thinking that its because there is no fleshed out 'other side' to this arguement. I want papers. I want science!
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seanthecaper
- Getting to Know You...
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:00 pm
- Location: Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
Bashing
As an outside observer who reads on TIMS more than he posts, I don't understand why people have to attack each other. Haven't we suffered enough emotionally from the ravages of MS? It is truly wasted energy when it becomes personal.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even Dr. Embry. LYON doesn't agree with the bashing of people who hold a contrary view to CCSVI because in order to validate an unproven theory, you must look at all angles - the science for and against CCSVI. That is his opinion. He is entitled to it, regardless if it appears to be negative toward CCSVI.
I will also agree with him that Embry does get personal toward the 2 writers who freelance for the Montreal Gazette. But, his son suffers from the illness so unless you are stoic and devoid of feelings, your personal feelings tend to creep in. Dr. Embry is on point with most of his arguments and is an excellent and articulate writer.
However, there is hypocrisy present if one says another person's criticism should not be mocked or bashed, as LYON believes Embry did in his response letter to the Gazette writers, but yet gets defensive when others have an opinion contrary to his own - as is the case with LYON, in my opinion.
LYON, you must see that my opinion or Cheers opinion or Happy Poet's opinion are as important and their arguments just as valid as yours or mine.
The scientific reasoning in some arguments is stronger than others, but none of us are scientists, researchers, neurologists or vascular specialists, so that must be considered when we read a scientific journal or article from a newspaper, and then form our hypothesis and opinions.
Even if one of us did have that background, our opinion is our opinion. Our scientific interpretation would hold more weight to peers if we were directly involved with CCSVI as a researcher or scientist of course.
I don't criticize anyone for getting personal from time to time about the toll MS has had in their life, as long as we don't start attacking each other. Every member here on TIMS does at some point.
WHY? We are suffering with a nasty illness or living with someone who suffers daily! We are human beings, not robots or test subjects or patient x or y. Real people with real issues.
In summary, in the famous words of an uneducated but well-meaning person who suffered from an injustice, Rodney King, " Why can't we all just get along?"
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even Dr. Embry. LYON doesn't agree with the bashing of people who hold a contrary view to CCSVI because in order to validate an unproven theory, you must look at all angles - the science for and against CCSVI. That is his opinion. He is entitled to it, regardless if it appears to be negative toward CCSVI.
I will also agree with him that Embry does get personal toward the 2 writers who freelance for the Montreal Gazette. But, his son suffers from the illness so unless you are stoic and devoid of feelings, your personal feelings tend to creep in. Dr. Embry is on point with most of his arguments and is an excellent and articulate writer.
However, there is hypocrisy present if one says another person's criticism should not be mocked or bashed, as LYON believes Embry did in his response letter to the Gazette writers, but yet gets defensive when others have an opinion contrary to his own - as is the case with LYON, in my opinion.
LYON, you must see that my opinion or Cheers opinion or Happy Poet's opinion are as important and their arguments just as valid as yours or mine.
The scientific reasoning in some arguments is stronger than others, but none of us are scientists, researchers, neurologists or vascular specialists, so that must be considered when we read a scientific journal or article from a newspaper, and then form our hypothesis and opinions.
Even if one of us did have that background, our opinion is our opinion. Our scientific interpretation would hold more weight to peers if we were directly involved with CCSVI as a researcher or scientist of course.
I don't criticize anyone for getting personal from time to time about the toll MS has had in their life, as long as we don't start attacking each other. Every member here on TIMS does at some point.
WHY? We are suffering with a nasty illness or living with someone who suffers daily! We are human beings, not robots or test subjects or patient x or y. Real people with real issues.
In summary, in the famous words of an uneducated but well-meaning person who suffered from an injustice, Rodney King, " Why can't we all just get along?"
Re: Bashing
Unfortunately, sometimes people's opinions threaten the well being of their neighbors. A serial killer may be of the opinion that I should let him kill me and eat my liver. Forgive me if I don't feel he is entitled to that opinion.seanthecaper wrote:Everyone is entitled to an opinion,
In the absence of evil, on a playground where everyone plays nice, your stance is perfectly valid. The bad news: evil is real. It is rearing it's ugly head in Canada where MS patients are denied a treatment to fix venous malformations that is available to all other people.
Mocking is never the best answer (unless it is done in a poem!
), but the lies must be exposed. I will pick Truth with a few bloody noses over civility with lies any day.Maybe it is time I re-read M. Scott Peck's excellent book, People of the Lie.
Guys, whenever this comes up, I get offended on Lyon's behalf. Anyone who can support themselves and their family through honest work is doing just fine.jr5646 wrote:Wondering why anybody even bothers reading posts from a Grounds Maintenance guy anyway?
We have a problem...Lyon is not treating people with respect...but that doesn't give us carte blanche to lacerate him right back.
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
Lyon, the golden rule is not, "He threw a rock at me, now I can stone him to death!!" When you retaliate, you escalate...and you're having fun, but for the rest of us it's a problem.
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition