Some news

patientx · Post by **patientx** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:55 am

Costumenastional:

There is another possibility. From the Buffalo results and anecdotal results reported here, it would seem that these stenoses are indeed seen more often in people with MS, i.e. they are associated with having MS. Assuming this, it is possible that the stenoses are a result of having MS, or some inflammatory process associated with the MS.

BadCopy · Post by **BadCopy** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:26 am

CCSvI has already been deemed congenital. Italy has also accepted CCSVI as an independent condition from MS.

I guess that if I went to an IR and was told my jugs were fine but he couldnt test the Azygos I would get a Venogram to have them all checked again. Some patients see only Azygos stenosis so I dont see why you would only do half the job. Also, as has been pointed out,there are several other diseases that have similar symptoms to MS.

Until you either get all the veins normally assosiated with MS checked properly or have the other conditions(Lyme etc.) eliminated as a cause of the symptoms you have eliminated nothing. You are back where you started.

There are some DRs out there say that if you were PROPERLY DIAGOSED WITH MS you have CCSVI. That being said, that does not meen you are going to get better after it is fixed.

Rokkit · Post by **Rokkit** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:02 am

I think if I was your friend I'd still try to get an MRV and even a venogram. Or just jump straight to venogram. I know there's a good chance the jugs are fine, but still, nothing like a venogram. Especially with the IVUS like Dr. S was using to find problems with valves and flaps and such.

sbr487 · Post by **sbr487** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:32 am

patientx wrote:Costumenastional:

There is another possibility. From the Buffalo results and anecdotal results reported here, it would seem that these stenoses are indeed seen more often in people with MS, i.e. they are associated with having MS. Assuming this, it is possible that the stenoses are a result of having MS, or some inflammatory process associated with the MS.

I agree with all you said provided we decide to leave our common sense at home that bad blood in reversing flow is fine; that the reflux we observe in the US is an abberation and should be ignored ...

As some one said - its easy to make simple things complicated .....

concerned · Post by **concerned** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:37 am

se1956 wrote:I think we are talking about a risc factor:

He/she never smokes but got lung cancer (about 20% of cases). Why??

But for about 80% of lung cancers smoking is the main cause.

R.

Radon Gas, and enviromental factors like pollution can account for most of that I think.

rssugg · Post by **rssugg** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:39 am

im still in the camp that believes there is a mechanical purpose to CCSVI - vertebral pinching, etc. This would be found in the 10% or so that are not dx as traditional ccsvi theory

sbr487 · Post by **sbr487** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:40 am

Algis wrote:Stenoses and reflux: does it "implies" BBB breach? Maybe some have stenoses and reflux and in no meaningful way do they have harmful cross of the barrier?

(sorry am not sure I express myself clearly here )

Algis, not sure if this helps but I have seen a paper that indicates that BBB compromised filtering is body's intentional mechanism to let immune cells enter the brain. Indirectly it implies that the BBB filtering is not a static behavior but can respond to body's need by lowering its filtering capacity.

patientx · Post by **patientx** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:48 am

sbr487 wrote:provided we decide to leave our common sense at home

It doesn't seem like you would have any problem with this.

that bad blood in reversing flow is fine; that the reflux we observe in the US is an abberation and should be ignored ...

I never suggested either one of these things.

As some one said - its easy to make simple things complicated .....

And it's easy to try to over-simplify things that really are complicated.

sbr487 · Post by **sbr487** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:01 am

patientx wrote:
sbr487 wrote:
As some one said - its easy to make simple things complicated .....
And it's easy to try to over-simplify things that really are complicated.

And there lies the difference between CRABS who take complicated route and achieve nothing ... imagine if every scientist went about this route ...

malden · Post by **malden** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:50 pm

costumenastional wrote:...I dont think that the nerves that connect your muscle with your CNS (if there is such a description) can cause what you are describing. What makes you think something like that is happening to you? Do you suffer from a peripheral neuropathy??

If you have an MS dx, you should focus in your brain and spine ;)

Nerves that connect my CNC with my muscle are very long chain of nerves and if that chain is week (mielin naked) than information that they are supposed to deliver can easy fade during trip. Same with backward information.

AD 2: I have MS Dx since last century. I am focused to my brain and spine, but veins... doesn't fit in my hemodynamics equations ;)

M.

malden · Post by **malden** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:01 pm

sbr487 wrote:....I agree with all you said provided we decide to leave our common sense at home that bad blood in reversing flow is fine; that the reflux we observe in the US is an abberation and should be ignored ...

My common sence is that 'blood in reversing flow' is hemodynamic imposible, and that so called 'reflux' is just the artifact in bad tuned color doppler machine.

M.

Cece · Post by **Cece** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:01 pm

patientx wrote:
sbr487 wrote:provided we decide to leave our common sense at home
It doesn't seem like you would have any problem with this.

Personal attack. Not cool.

malden · Post by **malden** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:05 pm

Cece wrote:Personal attack. Not cool.

I don't think so. It's just 'Brain storming' ;)

M.

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:05 pm

Cece · Post by **Cece** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:06 pm

Malden wrote:My common sence is that 'blood in reversing flow' is hemodynamic imposible, and that so called 'reflux' is just the artifact in bad tuned color doppler machine.

Reflux is a commonly found feature of CVI.

Check out this animation:
http://www.vnus.com/venous-reflux/

The animation is bottom-side-up, since it's of a valve in lower-body CVI; for CCSVI the brain would be on the bottom of the screen with the blood refluxing up towards it.