Canadian media reporting on death from CCSVI complications

[Lyon]

.

[Blaze]

Does anyone know with certainty that he was refused treatment by Canadian doctors?

What I've seen so far seems only based on the assumption that he would have utilized Canadian doctors if he had that option but we've yet to hear specifically that he was refused treatment in Canada from a source close to him.

Here's an update from CBC (Lack of Followup Deplored After MS Death):
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/11/ ... ml?ref=rss

According to Mahir's girlfriend, Canadian specialists "didn't want to touch him because he was done outside of Canada."

[scorpion]

Any type of surgery or procedure will have some deaths...it is a risk factor even with simple
appendicitis or tonsils. Very Sad though...and I fault the Canadian docs for not treating him. I don't care
where he had his procedure!
HB

Mostic's death is sad but not unexpected because there's not enough scientific evidence to suggest the invasive procedure is a safe and effective way of treating MS, said Dr. Paul Hébert, editor in chief of the Canadian Medical Association Journal.


To blame this tragic incident only on the Canadian doctor's is insane. Another part of the equation is this gentleman (and father) went over seas to get a procedure performed that has not been proven safe. ...

[Lyon]

.

[Blaze]

I just heard Saskatchewan's Health Don McMorris interviewed on CBC's Power and Politics. He said Saskatchewan still plans to proceed with clinical trials to determine the effectiveness and safety of CCSVI treatment.

He also stressed residents of Saskatchewan will be treated for complications they may experience after traveling outside of Canada for treatment.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find a link to the interview on CBC's website.

[LR1234]

.......

[concerned]

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/11/19/ms-p ... osta-rica/

Dr. Barry Rubin, the head of vascular surgery at Toronto’s University Health Network, says it would have been safer to leave the clot alone. He also said he treated an MS patient recently who had blood clots after receiving neck vein surgery in Mexico.

[concerned]

http://www.leaderpost.com/health/More+r ... story.html

[Cece]

Did my posts on blood thinners get lost yesterday? Shoot. I was trying to see if Dr. F. in Costa Rica, who seems quite likeable, used the same standard of care with his choice of clot-busting agents as what would be used in the US. In the US it would be tPA, as far as I can tell. With all the Canadian media blitz, if this detail is ever shared (what particular clot-busting agent was injected), let me know. According to Dr. F, although the use of a stent is what led to the clot, the use of the blood-thinning injectable is what led to the internal bleeding and passing away. So I do want to know what injectable that was and if it's one that's likely to be used on any of us.

[1eye]

Mostic's death is sad but not unexpected because there's not enough scientific evidence to suggest the invasive procedure is a safe and effective way of treating MS, said Dr. Paul Hébert, editor in chief of the Canadian Medical Association Journal.


To blame this tragic incident only on the Canadian doctor's is insane. Another part of the equation is this gentleman (and father) went over seas to get a procedure performed that has not been proven safe. ...

Sad, but not unexpected comments. Again, please, decency...

[foreignlesion]

According to a Dr. on another site I go on, there is a massive difference between blood thinners and anticoagulants. Mr. Mostic was put on anti-coagulants which is a very big mistake with venous blockages.

[foreignlesion]

To blame this tragic incident only on the Canadian doctor's is insane. Another part of the equation is this gentleman (and father) went over seas to get a procedure performed that has not been proven safe. ...

Although I completely disagree with much of the medical tourism taking place at this time, I think it's perfectly acceptable and completely sane to blame this incident on the refusal of adequate after care available in this country. Just because a man has an unapproved surgery in a foreign country, does he forfeit his right to emergency medical treatment?

Should we start denying treatment to people who OD, suicide attempts, thrill seekers...........where should the line be drawn?

Emergency medical treatment is still an inherent right in this country as far as I'm aware.

[oreo]

Just because a man has an unapproved surgery in a foreign country, does he forfeit his right to emergency medical treatment?

Much has been made of the suggestion that this man was 'refused' emergency medical treatment. I have yet to actually read any solid factual reporting on the matter. However I would likely suggest that the reality was not that he was refused but that he would have been told that there was nothing that they could reasonably do for him. And that would have been the truth.

Any attempt by a canadian doctor to do something in this situation would have been unauthorized experimental treatment on a human being.

The local doctor would have no access to the patient's foreign medical records. Therefore he would not know, with the required precision, what was done. For the patient to say 'I had a stent inserted' is nowhere near enough. Without that detailed information where does the local doctor begin.

Then there is the question of accepted treatment protocols. As far as I know there is no accepted protocol in canadian medicine for the removal of a jugular venous stent. Largely because there is no protocol for putting one there in the first place.

One of the big problems with some of these foreign treatment locations as I see it is that they do not seem to have any selection criteria other than 'do you have the cash?'. It is a sad reality of any disease that a patient can reach a point where even an accepted course of treatment is no longer a viable option, never mind an entirely experimental one.

[TMrox]

LR1234 wrote:
"anticoagulants and blood thinners do not dissolve clots they just thin the blood so the body can dissolve them..."

I have no idea about this, it might be worth asking Dr Sclafani. I asked him something similiar a couple of weeks ago. I have a fb friend who developed a clot in his jugular vein a day after his balloon angioplasty.

TMrox wrote:
"Ultrasound on September 24 showed right jugular vein open and flowing, but left jugular vein closed due to a blood clot. I am currently on lovenox 60 mg and coumadin 7.5 mg. I had my second blood test today to see if I am on the correct dosage of coumadin to stop the lovenox.

I am scheduled for another ultrasound on October 14, 2010 to see if the clot has dissolved. He wanted to stent after the clot on the next Monday to open the vein, but I declined the stent.

Have any of your patients clotted after the angioplasty? If so, what was your procedure and how long did it take for the clots to dissolve?..." http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-10680-da ... -3525.html


DrSclafani wrote:
"so sorry this happened to you. It is pot luck whether the clot will spontaneously dissolve. The coumadin prevents new clot but doesnt really do anything for the old clot.

i have had one patient develop blood clots in the vein. We spent three days in the hospital dissolving the clot but as soon as we dissolved it all, it clotted again. We eventually gave up and put the patient on coumadin for 3-4 months. After that the vein was permanently occluded by clot..."

As an update on my friend's case, I'm happy to report that the clot had almost dissolved after a few weeks.

[Cece]

Much has been made of the suggestion that this man was 'refused' emergency medical treatment. I have yet to actually read any solid factual reporting on the matter.

But when his symptoms worsened he was rushed by ambulance to St. Catharines General Hospital. A blood clot had formed around the stent, but he wasn't treated for his complications at that time.

The hospital declined comment on the case.

http://tinyurl.com/2wc6xx9

That reads like denial of care to me.

LR1234, yes, it's clot-busting and not blood-thinning, I got sloppy with the distinctions in my other post. Specifically thrombolysis and injection of clot-busting agents into the stent. But this is something that any of us might face if we clot, even after angio without the use of stents. Urokinase, I will google that one, thanks.

anticoagulants and blood thinners do not dissolve clots they just thin the blood so the body can dissolve them, drugs like aspirin also make the blood less sticky but drugs used in thrombolysis actually dissolve the clots.

this is helpful, thanks