Some Medical Recollections

[Blaze]

As debates rage here and elsewhere about CCSVI, I am reminded of many other medical issues and controversies.

At the risk of divulging my age (almost 60–Yikes!), I clearly remember many of these:

POLIO: In the 1950s, polio still instilled terror in people. I remember standing in line when I was about 5 for the first polio vaccine, which was developed by Dr. Jonas Salk. Yet, some parents refused to have their children vaccinated for fear it would actually cause polio. Today, the vaccine has almost eradicated polio world-wide.

SMOKING: In 1964, when most adults (including pregnant women!) smoked, I remember watching the US Surgeon General (on black and white TV) report on between smoking and lung cancer. Many dismissed this as nonsense, ridiculous and other words I probably can’t use here. My father had died of cancer about 10 years earlier. Fortunately, my mother and stepfather were among the few who heeded the warnings and immediately stopped smoking. Today, our knowledge of smoking includes many forms of cancer, heart disease, strokes, effects on fetus, effects of second-hand smoke, etc.

ORGAN TRANSPLANTS: In 1967, Dr. Christian Barnard performed the world’s first successful heart transplant in South Africa. I remember people accusing him of “playing God” and insisting it shouldn't be allowed. Today, organ transplants save many lives (but unfortunately, too many still die awaiting a donor!)

HIV/AIDS: Until the early 1980s, HIV and AIDS were unheard of. For several years, it was believed the only way you could contract HIV was through sexual contact with a gay man. So, no one considered screening blood donations. As a result, many hemophiliacs and others were
infected through tainted blood transfusions. Today, we know both heterosexuals and homosexuals can become infected and blood donations are routinely screened.

LASER: I recently went with my mother for laser treatment of a leaking blood vessel in her eye. While the ophthalmologist did the treatment, he told us about working with a “group of rebel doctors” in 1975 when he was a young physician. Lasers were considered dangerous and few hospitals would allow laser treatments on eyes to be done. When he moved to my mother’s community, he had to fight for years to be allowed to do laser treatments. Today, laser is a recognized, safe and commonly used procedure for vision and other medical treatments.

MS: When I was diagnosed with MS in 1984, I was told an effective treatment was possible within 10 years. Today, after following the standard auto immune, drug model, little effective treatment is available.

CCSVI: CCSVI is in its infancy and Dr Zamboni and others are taking the same heat that some of those earlier medical pioneers took. Dr. Scalafani just said on his thread, we need “more discussions about how to move forward,” including “approaches to delivery of care, of details of
techniques, revisions of angioplasty, etc.” If we help do that, we could change medical history. It would be great if we could look back in a few years and say “I was part of that.”

[blossom]

blaze, i remember all that as i am a baby boomer too. when the ccsvi news got out i know that many are shocked at the way it took off. the determination and suport that came from the ms communities all over the world and the determined and fearless doctors that bucked the system will be remembered.

i feel ccsvi and the trickle down effect of the way of looking at ms and many diseases is here to stay.

let's hope it's not too late for some of us but it does give me comfort that it is helping many now and it is the best hope that the knowledge gained from all this will prevent the younger ones from having to deal with this hideous disease.

[Blaze]

Blossom, I'm glad you share the memories. You are in my home state. I was born and raised in northwestern Pennsylvania, but I have lived in Canada for 40 years. (Again, I'm showing my age--not looking forward to that birthday next month!)

I hope CCSVI proves to be as much of a success as some of the other breakthroughs were. I think it is defintely a piece of a very complex puzzle. I wish Dr. Schelling had been able to pursue his research in the 1970s or even Dr. Putnam in 1936.

If they had, perhaps things would be very different for those of us who have MS today. When I heard Dr. Schelling interviewed on CTV about his preliminary findings over 30 years ago and how he couldn't get funding anywhere for research, I felt as if someone had hit me in the chest with a bowling ball. We can't let that happen to the brave doctors today who are determined to research and treat CCSVI.

[CureIous]

As the family genealogist, I can attest that everyone loves stories from those who were there and can share the richness and depth only they can provide. The past is the key to put current events into proper perspective, which you eloquently achieved. I don't view any of the current growing pains as anything other than the natural order of things. You,ve also illustrated how often perception and appearances can conflict with reality.

The loggerhead will free up eventually, but I doubt the current state of CCSVI will even remotely resemble the future state. Interesting times, thanks so much for sharing!

Mark

[BadCopy]

I really dont think the future of CCSVI will be that different than today. Yes, the procedure itself will change I am sure along with the different areas within the body that stenosis, slowed flow, its reason for lack of flow, etc are found. In the end I think it will all come back to venous flow though. I think that's were it all starts, you just have to find the reason behind the flow problem.

You know that it was in the 80s that EAE (think thats the name) was developed in mice. we all know that the mice then developed MS "like" symptoms. Since than we have all been taking drugs that were developed based on THE THEORY that MS is an auto-immune disease. Sorry but I have to laugh at myself for ever believing they could find a cure (or even close) for MS when the model they based thier theory on is a disease that they themselves created in mice.

The one thing I enjoy more than pointing that out to neurologists is reminding them that IT IS STILL A THEORY THAT MS IS AN AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE. IT HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN.

[Cece]

Great list, Blaze.

BadCopy, I can't help but cheer on the CCSVI mice! (According to a conference flyer, there will be a presentation, but not for a few months yet, on successful CCSVI animal models. Can't wait.) Maybe they can CCSVI the mice, let them accumulate some neurological damage, then fix the CCSVI, then see what drugs help the mice remyelinate.

[pairOdime]

Definitely, excited to get info on the CCSVI animal models. I think the next dog I get I'm going to name "Putnam"...in honor of the original CCSVI model from the 1930's.

It was very interesting to hear Dr. Zamboni speak recently and he mentioned the Putnam dog study. Dr. Zamboni mentioned that (and this may not be exact) at 3 months no MS in the dogs, at 6 months no MS, but at 9 months it showed up....very interesting comment (at 19:20 in the presentation).

Putnam published these findings in the archive of neurology and psychiatry in 1937 (Dr. Zamboni mentions this point as well).

http://www.informed-scientist.org/prese ... n-position

Who knows, I may have to get a mouse too after all of this

[Blaze]

Definitely, excited to get info on the CCSVI animal models. I think the next dog I get I'm going to name "Putnam"...in honor of the original CCSVI model from the 1930's.

It was very interesting to hear Dr. Zamboni speak recently and he mentioned the Putnam dog study. Dr. Zamboni mentioned that (and this may not be exact) at 3 months no MS in the dogs, at 6 months no MS, but at 9 months it showed up....very interesting comment (at 19:20 in the presentation).

Putnam published these findings in the archive of neurology and psychiatry in 1937 (Dr. Zamboni mentions this point as well).

http://www.informed-scientist.org/prese ... n-position

Who knows, I may have to get a mouse too after all of this

Love the Putnam dog! You could name the mouse Schelling. Just don't get a cat named Freedman!

[Direct-MS]

Regarding animal models, it is also worth pointing out that there is an infection mouse model that produces a reasonable approximation of MS. It is Theiler's murine encephalomyelitis virus (TMEV) infection. It is not mentioned much because they have never been able to identify a CNS infectious agent that would cause MS.
Anyway, the EAE model (developed in the late 1930s) allows for the pedalling of the useless CRAB drugs which bring in billions. Notably many hundreds of treatments have been found to cure EAE but not a single one works on MS. However this is of no matter given the EAE model is what supports the use of the worthless drugs.
MS animal experiments/models are a huge research industry because they are easy and cheap. Everytime they "cure" a mouse of EAE it usually hits the paper as a breakthrough in MS. In reality, this research has yielded nothing so far that has helped a single person with MS.
If causing CCSVI in mice creates an MS-like disease, does this mean CCSVI causes MS. Of course not, and if such mice do not get an MS-like disease, this will not mean that CCSVI is not involved in MS.
We simply need proper cllinical trials involving persons with MS to see if CCSVI relief is of value or not. Given the results of the 12,000+ CCSVI treatments so far, I will put my money on it will be of value

[Johnson]

Regarding animal models, it is also worth pointing out that there is an infection mouse model that produces a reasonable approximation of MS. It is Theiler's murine encephalomyelitis virus (TMEV) infection. It is not mentioned much because they have never been able to identify a CNS infectious agent that would cause MS. (...)

Some "fascinating reading" circa the 1960s from Le Gac (et al) - regarding Rickettsias, murines, etc. in MS, and successful resolutions with the use of anti-biotics.

These bacteria, and others, are endothelial disruptive, and prefer low-oxygen environments. This would explain a lot of stenoses (and brain plaques), in my view.

Paul Le Gac and his co-workers treated a number of people with MS using broad-spectrum antibiotics (tetracyclines) the post-war period, from the 1950s through to the mid-1970s. These papers and presentations make fascinating reading. I'll not add my own commentry (sic) except to say that the existence of Chlamydiales was not known in his earlier work, and his reference to neo- and para-rickettsias shows that he knew that he was dealing with a novel intracellular organism. He was clearly a revolutionary thinker and deserves to be remembered as a pioneer in the treatment of Multiple Sclerosis with antibiotics.