Dear doctor,
thank you one more time.
Im very grateful for your reply.
CCSVI and CCVBP
-
costumenastional
- Family Elder
- Posts: 743
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:00 pm
- Location: Greece
- Contact:
-
uprightdoc
- Family Elder
- Posts: 1995
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Hello Ollia and Costumenational,
You need some plain view x-rays of the spine such as AP and Lateral Cervical and Lumbar Views to start with. Again, I prefer one long AP 14x36 inch view for scoliosis, such as the x-ray Fernando posted in the beginning of this thread. Very few facilities, however, have the long cassets or films needed to take them. However, you can use two overlapping 14x17 inch views instead. The top will be the neck and thoracic spine and the bottom the AP view of the lumbar spine. The purpose is to see the overall alignment of the spine from top to bottom looking from front to back (anterior to posterior or AP).
If you don't have an upper cervical chiropractor close enough to Ollia than look for someone with plenty of experience who does craniosacral or Sacrooccipital Technique (SOT). Alternatively a DABCO or DABCN would be a good choice but I doubt you will find one in Greece.
You need some plain view x-rays of the spine such as AP and Lateral Cervical and Lumbar Views to start with. Again, I prefer one long AP 14x36 inch view for scoliosis, such as the x-ray Fernando posted in the beginning of this thread. Very few facilities, however, have the long cassets or films needed to take them. However, you can use two overlapping 14x17 inch views instead. The top will be the neck and thoracic spine and the bottom the AP view of the lumbar spine. The purpose is to see the overall alignment of the spine from top to bottom looking from front to back (anterior to posterior or AP).
If you don't have an upper cervical chiropractor close enough to Ollia than look for someone with plenty of experience who does craniosacral or Sacrooccipital Technique (SOT). Alternatively a DABCO or DABCN would be a good choice but I doubt you will find one in Greece.
-
costumenastional
- Family Elder
- Posts: 743
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:00 pm
- Location: Greece
- Contact:
-
costumenastional
- Family Elder
- Posts: 743
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:00 pm
- Location: Greece
- Contact:
Dear Doctor Flanagan,
my friend is very sad to say the least since she feels she is beyond help at the moment. I know her laugh and I think different. I believe it is not too late for her.
You of all people know better that I don't loose time when decisions have to be made not to mention that I may overdo it sometimes. But it s not about me.
I also pretty much get what you are saying about the problems she has, the x rays that must be taken and all but I need to ask you a question I consider of great importance:
Can upper cervical help her? it s too difficult for me to imagine that all these vertebrae and discs might be straightened only by adjusting the Atlas.
Full spine chiropractic seems to be an alternative in my clueless mind. I wouldn't dare to speak of surgery since we both know that they wont operate. And maybe that's for the better. I wouldn't imagine that she would go for it either and I dont blame her or anyone on that matter.
So, we need x rays of the spine for starters, even the most simple we can get. Anything is better than nothing.
What if they show the things you already know they will show? I am positive you already have an idea after all. What then?
Upper cervical, full spine or what?
My friend has already undergone the "liberation" treatment twice and I am praying that this will solve all her problems eventually. Until then would you suggest to sit tight and do nothing?
I for one have felt the damage that a single misalignment of the cervical spine can do, as well as the benefits of trying to put that damn bone back into place. But here we are talking about something different, more extended. You noted at least 4 problems in a neck full of lesions. And I happen to know that neuro conditions caused by spinal problems are more serious than MS itself. For Christ's sake, I nearly died and I only have one lesion while classic MS patients might be fairly well with numerous lesions for years.
I need a plan here. That simple. A plan that Ollia will believe in. Because she is a fighter and I am not ready to give up on her. I never will.
Thank you for your patience.
my friend is very sad to say the least since she feels she is beyond help at the moment. I know her laugh and I think different. I believe it is not too late for her.
You of all people know better that I don't loose time when decisions have to be made not to mention that I may overdo it sometimes. But it s not about me.
I also pretty much get what you are saying about the problems she has, the x rays that must be taken and all but I need to ask you a question I consider of great importance:
Can upper cervical help her? it s too difficult for me to imagine that all these vertebrae and discs might be straightened only by adjusting the Atlas.
Full spine chiropractic seems to be an alternative in my clueless mind. I wouldn't dare to speak of surgery since we both know that they wont operate. And maybe that's for the better. I wouldn't imagine that she would go for it either and I dont blame her or anyone on that matter.
So, we need x rays of the spine for starters, even the most simple we can get. Anything is better than nothing.
What if they show the things you already know they will show? I am positive you already have an idea after all. What then?
Upper cervical, full spine or what?
My friend has already undergone the "liberation" treatment twice and I am praying that this will solve all her problems eventually. Until then would you suggest to sit tight and do nothing?
I for one have felt the damage that a single misalignment of the cervical spine can do, as well as the benefits of trying to put that damn bone back into place. But here we are talking about something different, more extended. You noted at least 4 problems in a neck full of lesions. And I happen to know that neuro conditions caused by spinal problems are more serious than MS itself. For Christ's sake, I nearly died and I only have one lesion while classic MS patients might be fairly well with numerous lesions for years.
I need a plan here. That simple. A plan that Ollia will believe in. Because she is a fighter and I am not ready to give up on her. I never will.
Thank you for your patience.
-
uprightdoc
- Family Elder
- Posts: 1995
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Hello Costume,costumenastional wrote:Can upper cervical help her? it s too difficult for me to imagine that all these vertebrae and discs might be straightened only by adjusting the Atlas.
Full spine chiropractic seems to be an alternative in my clueless mind. I wouldn't dare to speak of surgery since we both know that they wont operate. And maybe that's for the better. I wouldn't imagine that she would go for it either and I dont blame her or anyone on that matter.
So, we need x rays of the spine for starters, even the most simple we can get. Anything is better than nothing.
What if they show the things you already know they will show? I am positive you already have an idea after all. What then?
Upper cervical, full spine or what? ...here we are talking about something different, more extended. You noted at least 4 problems in a neck full of lesions.
I need a plan here.
Upper cervical care is best at realigning and decompressing the most critical area in the spine. It also balances the head on the spine and the head weight 10-14 pounds similar to a bowling ball. Balancing it takes a lot of stress off the spine.
That said, full spine can take stress off the rest of the spine and the upper cervical spine if it is done appropriately. I personally used and prefer craniosacral methods, which is very effective. The problem is in the analysis and the way it is currently practiced. It can be very subjective in analysis and correction. X-rays give you a much better picture of what is going on structurally. My craniopathic work is similar to upper cervical in analysis of the misalignment and correction.
Your friend has serious problems and you want to find somone who can handle her case appropriately. Get the names of chiropractors with offices close to Ollia. For starters, find out where they went to school, how long they have been in practice and what methods they use. Also find out if they use physiotherapy equipment such as muscle stim or traction and then let me know.
-
costumenastional
- Family Elder
- Posts: 743
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:00 pm
- Location: Greece
- Contact:
This sounds like a plan indeed. I ll do my best. Thank you Dear Doctor Flanagan. Thank you very much.uprightdoc wrote:Get the names of chiropractors with offices close to Ollia. For starters, find out where they went to school, how long they have been in practice and what methods they use. Also find out if they use physiotherapy equipment such as muscle stim or traction and then let me know.
The recent post has a familiar sound to it.
Dr F can you explain why Xray is preferred over MRI please?
After my recent visit to my GP I am now waiting to hear back if I can see the Health System Neuro. I found that I felt I was speaking a different language when the subject of spine alignment happened. There seems to be yet again a problem of acceptance of the knowledge from your work Dr. F.
I felt I was not being believed and when the subject of CCSVI came into the conversation afterwards I was surprised to here the GP has a Canadian Nurse staying at present on holiday. She has knowledge of CCSVI and her view was to wait for the concrete detail before proceeding, which my GP could see was an indication that the NZ Health System will also be sitting back and waiting. This includes I believe even the Doppler and MRV investigations. There is too much reliance on water tight proof, amazing when so many other health approaches are not proven in the same way before mainstreaming.
Any way I am at the hands of the system, which is it seems the only way forward at this time. I have pushed for an MRI to update my incomplete diagnosis from 2.5 years ago by the Health System.
If I want Xrays I will have to pay for them, which at this moment will have to wait. It will be interesting talking to the Neuro about my knowledge of spine alignment, CSF and Vascular flows and his knowledge of MS. The rumor is that MS is a nuisance for him!
I am interested at the similarity of Ollia's health has to mine (and the lesions and disc bulges). I am hoping that the explanation of symptom causation and the Xrays will be support for me to use to further my own case (with all respect to Ollia).
I haven't heard anything back from John, which I doubted I would to be honest, to much into the unknown for the Chiro's here, let alone the rest of the medical profession and their support of Chiropractic approach.
Regards to all, Nigel
Dr F can you explain why Xray is preferred over MRI please?
After my recent visit to my GP I am now waiting to hear back if I can see the Health System Neuro. I found that I felt I was speaking a different language when the subject of spine alignment happened. There seems to be yet again a problem of acceptance of the knowledge from your work Dr. F.
I felt I was not being believed and when the subject of CCSVI came into the conversation afterwards I was surprised to here the GP has a Canadian Nurse staying at present on holiday. She has knowledge of CCSVI and her view was to wait for the concrete detail before proceeding, which my GP could see was an indication that the NZ Health System will also be sitting back and waiting. This includes I believe even the Doppler and MRV investigations. There is too much reliance on water tight proof, amazing when so many other health approaches are not proven in the same way before mainstreaming.
Any way I am at the hands of the system, which is it seems the only way forward at this time. I have pushed for an MRI to update my incomplete diagnosis from 2.5 years ago by the Health System.
If I want Xrays I will have to pay for them, which at this moment will have to wait. It will be interesting talking to the Neuro about my knowledge of spine alignment, CSF and Vascular flows and his knowledge of MS. The rumor is that MS is a nuisance for him!
I am interested at the similarity of Ollia's health has to mine (and the lesions and disc bulges). I am hoping that the explanation of symptom causation and the Xrays will be support for me to use to further my own case (with all respect to Ollia).
I haven't heard anything back from John, which I doubted I would to be honest, to much into the unknown for the Chiro's here, let alone the rest of the medical profession and their support of Chiropractic approach.
Regards to all, Nigel
-
uprightdoc
- Family Elder
- Posts: 1995
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Good morning and thanks DR.
The challenge that I had when I spoke with my GP was based around the lesion on my cord. It was the view of the GP that if there is a lesion Chiropractic adjustment would not improve MS disability. I was unable to discuss this further, it was in my mind a fair comment.
After wards I thought about how lesions on MRI come and go over even a short time.
http://healthworldnet.com/TheCuttingEdg ... re/?C=7561
It would appear there would have to be supporting information about Chiropractic care and MS improvement, the same as there is for CCSVI treatments and MS improvement.
There is quite a difference in thinking approach when you look at cause and when you look at symptom improvement because of treatment.
I understand the there can be a difference in non progressive disease, MS is a progressive disease and the cause is more important than the improving treatments. With out stopping progression you are entering into an area of health care that is different.
The health care for PwMS needs to be focussed on cause not continuing the disease.
The challenge that I had when I spoke with my GP was based around the lesion on my cord. It was the view of the GP that if there is a lesion Chiropractic adjustment would not improve MS disability. I was unable to discuss this further, it was in my mind a fair comment.
After wards I thought about how lesions on MRI come and go over even a short time.
http://healthworldnet.com/TheCuttingEdg ... re/?C=7561
It would appear there would have to be supporting information about Chiropractic care and MS improvement, the same as there is for CCSVI treatments and MS improvement.
There is quite a difference in thinking approach when you look at cause and when you look at symptom improvement because of treatment.
I understand the there can be a difference in non progressive disease, MS is a progressive disease and the cause is more important than the improving treatments. With out stopping progression you are entering into an area of health care that is different.
The health care for PwMS needs to be focussed on cause not continuing the disease.
-
uprightdoc
- Family Elder
- Posts: 1995
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Hell NZer,
While MS lesions indicate problems and they are used to confirm the diagnosis, the locations of the lesions don't always correlate with the signs, symptoms or disability. The lesions can be old or new areas of edema, ischemia or demyelination. It's not always easy to tell exactly what they are. In this regard, migraine patients sometimes have lesions similar to MS but they have none of disabilities. Lesions in the cord can likewise be due to acute or chronic edema, ischemia or inflammation.
As far as the lesion in your cervical spine is concerned, it unlikely that it has anything to do with your fatigue and loss of balance. The fatigue and loss of balance are most likely due to decreased blood flow through the vertebral-basilar arteries. Low blood pressure compounds the problem.
While MS lesions indicate problems and they are used to confirm the diagnosis, the locations of the lesions don't always correlate with the signs, symptoms or disability. The lesions can be old or new areas of edema, ischemia or demyelination. It's not always easy to tell exactly what they are. In this regard, migraine patients sometimes have lesions similar to MS but they have none of disabilities. Lesions in the cord can likewise be due to acute or chronic edema, ischemia or inflammation.
As far as the lesion in your cervical spine is concerned, it unlikely that it has anything to do with your fatigue and loss of balance. The fatigue and loss of balance are most likely due to decreased blood flow through the vertebral-basilar arteries. Low blood pressure compounds the problem.
Thanks Dr.
There is also I believe issues that relate to the Thalamus blood flow and lesions there as well. Thalamus function relates to, if I remember correctly all the MS symptoms, either directly through nerve signals both to and from the brain or indirectly from the matrix effect of signals that pass through the Thalamus either to or from the brain.
The problem for me is to give evidence to the various professionals that they will accept and act upon.
No doubt everyone is in the same quandary as me. The proof that is required will turn the tide for us all, it is assembling the details that is seeming impossible. The studies and required outcome data doesn't exist in my understanding. There is a lot of anecdotal information but nothing to make mainstream medicine accept the information you have provided us.
I like most PwMS await the day, hopefully in our lifetimes, that will assemble the information required to create the transformation of knowledge we require to confirm our disease cause.
Regards Nigel.
There is also I believe issues that relate to the Thalamus blood flow and lesions there as well. Thalamus function relates to, if I remember correctly all the MS symptoms, either directly through nerve signals both to and from the brain or indirectly from the matrix effect of signals that pass through the Thalamus either to or from the brain.
The problem for me is to give evidence to the various professionals that they will accept and act upon.
No doubt everyone is in the same quandary as me. The proof that is required will turn the tide for us all, it is assembling the details that is seeming impossible. The studies and required outcome data doesn't exist in my understanding. There is a lot of anecdotal information but nothing to make mainstream medicine accept the information you have provided us.
I like most PwMS await the day, hopefully in our lifetimes, that will assemble the information required to create the transformation of knowledge we require to confirm our disease cause.
Regards Nigel.
I have re-read your comment above,
" As far as the lesion in your cervical spine is concerned, it unlikely that it has anything to do with your fatigue and loss of balance. The fatigue and loss of balance are most likely due to decreased blood flow through the vertebral-basilar arteries. Low blood pressure compounds the problem."
The question that it creates is "how or what caused the disability then"?
Is it the nerve damage caused by blood flow depletion?
Following the nerve damage does the lesion form?
Does the area therefore have only an indication of where the blood flow problem occurred?
Therefore does the lesion give indication of the blood flow issue?
Is the lesion in MS physically different to say migraine lesions?
Are migraine lesions caused by blood flow?
Is there a difference in the length of time the blood flow issue occurs in MS and migraine?
Is the migraine lesion 'repaired/overcome' quicker meaning less ongoing problems than MS lesions which is the reason the MS disability occurs?
Is it the position that the migraine lesion occurred the reason the migraine occurs, therefore if it occurred elsewhere it could be MS or a Stroke lesion?
Is the migraine lesion and a Stroke similar but of different 'size', 'position' and or 'effect' which causes these difference in disability?
Is the difference between the migraine,a Stroke and MS 'time' when the blockage of flow occurs, plus position?
Thanks Nigel
" As far as the lesion in your cervical spine is concerned, it unlikely that it has anything to do with your fatigue and loss of balance. The fatigue and loss of balance are most likely due to decreased blood flow through the vertebral-basilar arteries. Low blood pressure compounds the problem."
The question that it creates is "how or what caused the disability then"?
Is it the nerve damage caused by blood flow depletion?
Following the nerve damage does the lesion form?
Does the area therefore have only an indication of where the blood flow problem occurred?
Therefore does the lesion give indication of the blood flow issue?
Is the lesion in MS physically different to say migraine lesions?
Are migraine lesions caused by blood flow?
Is there a difference in the length of time the blood flow issue occurs in MS and migraine?
Is the migraine lesion 'repaired/overcome' quicker meaning less ongoing problems than MS lesions which is the reason the MS disability occurs?
Is it the position that the migraine lesion occurred the reason the migraine occurs, therefore if it occurred elsewhere it could be MS or a Stroke lesion?
Is the migraine lesion and a Stroke similar but of different 'size', 'position' and or 'effect' which causes these difference in disability?
Is the difference between the migraine,a Stroke and MS 'time' when the blockage of flow occurs, plus position?
Thanks Nigel
-
uprightdoc
- Family Elder
- Posts: 1995
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
NZer1,NZer1 wrote:"how or what caused the disability then"?
Is it the nerve damage caused by blood flow depletion?
Following the nerve damage does the lesion form?
Does the area therefore have only an indication of where the blood flow problem occurred?
Therefore does the lesion give indication of the blood flow issue?
Is the lesion in MS physically different to say migraine lesions?
Are migraine lesions caused by blood flow?
Is there a difference in the length of time the blood flow issue occurs in MS and migraine?
Is the migraine lesion 'repaired/overcome' quicker meaning less ongoing problems than MS lesions which is the reason the MS disability occurs?
Is it the position that the migraine lesion occurred the reason the migraine occurs, therefore if it occurred elsewhere it could be MS or a Stroke lesion?
Is the migraine lesion and a Stroke similar but of different 'size', 'position' and or 'effect' which causes these difference in disability?
Is the difference between the migraine,a Stroke and MS 'time' when the blockage of flow occurs, plus position?
The lesions do follow the nerve damage. Sometimes they get repaired and go away and other times the damage is permanent. In other cases new lesions form. The disability can be due to damage to the nerves with the lesions but it can also be due to problems in different areas that caused the damage to the nerve in the first place such as poor blood flow. You don't have lesions on your cerebellum but you do have cerebellar signs.
You have a history of trauma to the cervical spine and a lesion in your cervical spine. Nerves are delicate and damage shows up quickly. The strong tissues of the spine on the other hand degenerate slowly and the impact of injuries often show up years later as any athlete can attest to. The lesion in your cervical spine was probably caused by the trauma. In addition to damaging the nerves in the cervical spine, the trauma caused misalignments in the cervical spine. The misalignment in the upper cervical spine is causing pressure on the vertebral-basilar arteries, the vertebral veins and CSF flow in the subarachnoid space.
The hyperintensity signals seen MS can be similar to the ones seen in migraines but the locations are different. In MS they are typically above tentorium cerebelli, which is the covering over the cerebellum (supra tentorial lesions). In migraines they are often found in the cerebellum. Migraines are most likely due to decreased blood flow (ischemia) through the vertebral-basilar arteries. Migraines are similar in many ways to transient ischemic attacks (TIAs/mini strokes).
Hi Dr.
I was re-scanned again at my upper cervical chiro. yesterday. He says the nerve scan looks better again. The first time it was 6.0 and the next was much lower but still in the red zone. Yesterday I didn't get the report because of printer problems but he said it is not even (the C-1) in the red zone this time.
He does say that the muscle scan still shows stress and tightness that he seems to always be trying to relaxe in the neck and upper back.
He is suggesting me to see a medical massage therapist. He mentions breaking up the "acidity" in those muscles.
He has one that works in his office but suggests me looking for one closer to home. His would be an hour drive for me which I think I would rather do because they would be familiar with my case.
I wonder what your opinion is of seeing a message therapist.
I don't know how much you remember of my case but I had the procedure last July and have been told I've re-stenosed. I have not had a ms diagnosis.
I will be seeing Dr. Sclafani in the very near future for the testing and a consult with him to discuss whether I should try re-treatment or not.
In my situation, what do you think of this type of massage?
I don't want to make the internal jugulars worse.
Thanks.
Kathy
I was re-scanned again at my upper cervical chiro. yesterday. He says the nerve scan looks better again. The first time it was 6.0 and the next was much lower but still in the red zone. Yesterday I didn't get the report because of printer problems but he said it is not even (the C-1) in the red zone this time.
He does say that the muscle scan still shows stress and tightness that he seems to always be trying to relaxe in the neck and upper back.
He is suggesting me to see a medical massage therapist. He mentions breaking up the "acidity" in those muscles.
He has one that works in his office but suggests me looking for one closer to home. His would be an hour drive for me which I think I would rather do because they would be familiar with my case.
I wonder what your opinion is of seeing a message therapist.
I don't know how much you remember of my case but I had the procedure last July and have been told I've re-stenosed. I have not had a ms diagnosis.
I will be seeing Dr. Sclafani in the very near future for the testing and a consult with him to discuss whether I should try re-treatment or not.
In my situation, what do you think of this type of massage?
I don't want to make the internal jugulars worse.
Thanks.
Kathy