CN, I have to say that firstly I am rapped to here you have found relief from your symptoms.
I also have to say that I have met many people who have had corrective surgery for misalignments and damage.
The success rate for surgery appears to go with difficulty of surgery and what has to be cut away to gain access for stabilizing the joints. There is a high difficulty in the area you have problems and I would say that there would also be a very high likelihood of side effect symptoms from the type of surgery because muscle and tendons would have to be disconnected from bone to allow access and attachment of support as well as risk to nerves in the region. The risk that I have been told about in my shoulders for example is that there will be ongoing possible pain from scar tissue and risk of nerve problems.
I spoke with many people and a couple of quality surgeons to get myself clear on the odds for success without side effect.
I would like to hear that you looked at this as well, it is too easy to have the 'I'll pop a pill or they can fix it' mentality and not hear the realities of treatments.
I don't want to put a downer on you hopes, I want to bring some balance into your choices.
Having Chiropractic relief that 'holds' for most of the time or pain and less mobility that is not reversible?
Drs. F and K will have their opinion here as well no doubt.
Enjoy your day everyone, regards,
Nigel
CCSVI and CCVBP
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civickiller
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Hot off the press;
http://uprightdoctor.wordpress.com/2011 ... and-ccsvi/
← Spondylosis, Stenosis, Cog Fog and Dementia
Scoliosis, Chiari malformations and CCSVI
Posted on May 17, 2011 by uprightdoctor
Image via Wikipedia
The spine is the frame of the body. Its alignment affects all the organs and vessels that surround or are attached to it, including the brain and its blood vessels. The spine also houses the cord, as well as its blood vessels and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) pathways.
This post is about the impact of scoliosis on the contents of the posterior fossa of the skull, which includes the drainage system of the brain. Abnormal curvatures in the spine alter the normal alignment and relationship of the head and spine, and as a result, the normal relationship of the brain and cord. Curvatures also alter their circulatory routes.
While there may be an attachment of the covering of the upper cord to the foramen magnum, for the most part, the brain is unattached and floats freely inside compartments within the cranial vault. Similarly, the spinal cord is unattached and moves fairly freely inside the spinal canal to accommodate movement of the spine. The end of the spinal cord, called the filum terminale, attaches to the tail end of the spine, called the coccyx. Certain movements of the spine, such as flexion stretch and strain the cord somewhat. Abnormal curvatures of the spine stretch and strain the spine that much more and thus deform the cord and brainstem.
Scoliosis is an abnormal sidewards curvature of the spine. It is typically thought of as a childhood condition but adults can get scoliosis as well. A thoracolumbar scoliosis affects the thoracic and lumbar spines. The thoracic spine is attached to the ribcage. The lumbar spine is the low back.
A double major scoliosis starts in the low back and pelvis and bends one way and then reverses itself and bends the other way in the thoracic spine. The thought is the second curve is to help balance the head on the spine. This may not be the case all the time. The x-ray above is of a young female not quite seventeen. It is a perfect example of a double major scoliosis. The x-ray was contributed to Wikimedia by the University of Utah Hospital Department of Radiology from a case in 2009.
In most cases the cause of childhood scoliosis is unknown but it affects females far more than it does males. In this regard there is also a connection of scoliosis to tethered cord syndromes. In tethered cord the spinal cord is genetically too short for the length of the spine. This creates a strain putting tension on the cord, which causes a downward traction on the brainstem.
Compared to males, females finish developing neurologically much earlier than males. The body, however, can continue to grow and outgrow the length of the cord. It makes sense that the normal growth of the spine could be restrained by the tension caused by the cord thus resulting in a scoliosis. This could explain why tall females seem to be somewhat more susceptible to scoliosis.
In addition to tethered cords, scoliosis can also alter the normal position of the brain within the cranial vault. Tethered cords for example pull the brain down toward the foramen magnum and base of the skull. Head tilts and twists due to scoliosis, likewise, alter the normal alignment of the brain on top of the spine and inside the cranial vault. It is not surprising then, that scoliosis is also associated with Chiari malformations in which the cerebellum is dislocated to a position out of the posterior fossa and into the foramen magnum.
Adults can acquire scoliosis later in life due to injuries and degeneration of the spine such as from arthritis or osteoporosis. Parkinson’s disease also affects the normal alignment of the spine causing it to bend forward into flexion. Rheumatoid arthritis can cause severe destruction of the spine and subsequent scoliosis. Tethered cords can also be caused in adults by injuries and scar tissue inside the spinal canal that restrict the normal movement of the cord.
In addition to scoliosis, kyphosis is an abnormal backwards curve in the spine. Parkinson’s disease and osteoporosis can cause kyphosis. Some people are born with a kyphosis. Kyphosis of the cervical spine can occur as a result of whiplash injuries. Kyphosis, like scoliosis, alters the normal course of blood vessels. It can also create tension in the cord similar to scoliosis when it tethers the cord.
In addition to Chiari malformations and tethered cords, scoliosis and kyphosis alter the normal course of blood vessels and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) pathways and can thus affect blood and CSF flow. Scoliosis and kyphosis most likely play a significant role in chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency, better known as CCSVI. It’s another topic I will cover in the future.
To get a better picture of the potential impact of scoliosis, Chiari malformation, and tethered cord on the brainstem and cerebellum in the posterior fossa click on the following link http://www.upright-health.com/posterior ... hiari.html .
http://uprightdoctor.wordpress.com/2011 ... and-ccsvi/
← Spondylosis, Stenosis, Cog Fog and Dementia
Scoliosis, Chiari malformations and CCSVI
Posted on May 17, 2011 by uprightdoctor
Image via Wikipedia
The spine is the frame of the body. Its alignment affects all the organs and vessels that surround or are attached to it, including the brain and its blood vessels. The spine also houses the cord, as well as its blood vessels and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) pathways.
This post is about the impact of scoliosis on the contents of the posterior fossa of the skull, which includes the drainage system of the brain. Abnormal curvatures in the spine alter the normal alignment and relationship of the head and spine, and as a result, the normal relationship of the brain and cord. Curvatures also alter their circulatory routes.
While there may be an attachment of the covering of the upper cord to the foramen magnum, for the most part, the brain is unattached and floats freely inside compartments within the cranial vault. Similarly, the spinal cord is unattached and moves fairly freely inside the spinal canal to accommodate movement of the spine. The end of the spinal cord, called the filum terminale, attaches to the tail end of the spine, called the coccyx. Certain movements of the spine, such as flexion stretch and strain the cord somewhat. Abnormal curvatures of the spine stretch and strain the spine that much more and thus deform the cord and brainstem.
Scoliosis is an abnormal sidewards curvature of the spine. It is typically thought of as a childhood condition but adults can get scoliosis as well. A thoracolumbar scoliosis affects the thoracic and lumbar spines. The thoracic spine is attached to the ribcage. The lumbar spine is the low back.
A double major scoliosis starts in the low back and pelvis and bends one way and then reverses itself and bends the other way in the thoracic spine. The thought is the second curve is to help balance the head on the spine. This may not be the case all the time. The x-ray above is of a young female not quite seventeen. It is a perfect example of a double major scoliosis. The x-ray was contributed to Wikimedia by the University of Utah Hospital Department of Radiology from a case in 2009.
In most cases the cause of childhood scoliosis is unknown but it affects females far more than it does males. In this regard there is also a connection of scoliosis to tethered cord syndromes. In tethered cord the spinal cord is genetically too short for the length of the spine. This creates a strain putting tension on the cord, which causes a downward traction on the brainstem.
Compared to males, females finish developing neurologically much earlier than males. The body, however, can continue to grow and outgrow the length of the cord. It makes sense that the normal growth of the spine could be restrained by the tension caused by the cord thus resulting in a scoliosis. This could explain why tall females seem to be somewhat more susceptible to scoliosis.
In addition to tethered cords, scoliosis can also alter the normal position of the brain within the cranial vault. Tethered cords for example pull the brain down toward the foramen magnum and base of the skull. Head tilts and twists due to scoliosis, likewise, alter the normal alignment of the brain on top of the spine and inside the cranial vault. It is not surprising then, that scoliosis is also associated with Chiari malformations in which the cerebellum is dislocated to a position out of the posterior fossa and into the foramen magnum.
Adults can acquire scoliosis later in life due to injuries and degeneration of the spine such as from arthritis or osteoporosis. Parkinson’s disease also affects the normal alignment of the spine causing it to bend forward into flexion. Rheumatoid arthritis can cause severe destruction of the spine and subsequent scoliosis. Tethered cords can also be caused in adults by injuries and scar tissue inside the spinal canal that restrict the normal movement of the cord.
In addition to scoliosis, kyphosis is an abnormal backwards curve in the spine. Parkinson’s disease and osteoporosis can cause kyphosis. Some people are born with a kyphosis. Kyphosis of the cervical spine can occur as a result of whiplash injuries. Kyphosis, like scoliosis, alters the normal course of blood vessels. It can also create tension in the cord similar to scoliosis when it tethers the cord.
In addition to Chiari malformations and tethered cords, scoliosis and kyphosis alter the normal course of blood vessels and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) pathways and can thus affect blood and CSF flow. Scoliosis and kyphosis most likely play a significant role in chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency, better known as CCSVI. It’s another topic I will cover in the future.
To get a better picture of the potential impact of scoliosis, Chiari malformation, and tethered cord on the brainstem and cerebellum in the posterior fossa click on the following link http://www.upright-health.com/posterior ... hiari.html .
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costumenastional
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No prob mate. Actually, I have already spoke with a surgeon who told me that the only thing he knows for sure is that what Dr Flanagan discovered, is responsible for my troubles. He then went on to tell me that there are no very capable surgeons that can solve my problem in Greece and gave me some contact details of one who may could.NZer1 wrote:I don't want to put a downer on you hopes, I want to bring some balance into your choices.
When I see the later I ll know better. If he tells me that I should not have surgery, I won't. And I know that he 'll probably tell me what Dr Flanagan and Dr Koontz tell me. But I got to give it a shot. At least find out if i am a candidate or not. Then, I have all the time I need to think it over.
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uprightdoc
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The surgery for CNs condition is called spinal decompression and stabilization. Decompression requires removing a portion of the back of the skull to enlarge the size of the foramen magnum, as well as shaving down or removing the rear walls of the upper cervical spine. Plates, wires, screws or bones grafts are then put in place to fuse and stabiize the area weakened by the surgery. Most surgeons use fairly strict criteria before considering surgery. It is primarily used for Chiari malformations as a last resort.civickiller wrote:I'm sorry, I don't know what surgery your talking about. Please explain ?
costumenastional
i had ajustments done afew yrs ago, it helped with my leg pain, and hips, but im having more problems now with my neck,
(in nz we have xrays done instead or mri to see if anythings wrong, the problem with that, if you other issues going on it wont show,)
i had a chiroprator tell me i had a break in my lumber region, my mri shows my disks are narrowing)
also my mri showed a chiari malformation, this is also dangerous if having adjustments,
i spoke to a nuero chrioprator not far from my home town, he told me that if he adjustments me, IT COULD KILL ME,
i also suffer from arachnoid cysts in the theoriac region, the NC also told me i could not be adjusted, im too dangerous.
im now waiting for tests on a conditon called cadasil
MS still hasnt been ruled out.
so in some cases adjustments are wonderful, and in others it can cause more damage, i feel with any alternative treatment you do have to be careful,
no disrepect is any chiroprators here, im sure they have helped alot of people, but it does make you question when is it right to have adjustments,
i always got told that your body will do it naturally.
plus you cant change the blue print of your body
i hope it goes well for you and you get the results that your looking for
surgery is abig step, and not one to take lightly,
please keep me informed how it goes
neava
i had ajustments done afew yrs ago, it helped with my leg pain, and hips, but im having more problems now with my neck,
(in nz we have xrays done instead or mri to see if anythings wrong, the problem with that, if you other issues going on it wont show,)
i had a chiroprator tell me i had a break in my lumber region, my mri shows my disks are narrowing)
also my mri showed a chiari malformation, this is also dangerous if having adjustments,
i spoke to a nuero chrioprator not far from my home town, he told me that if he adjustments me, IT COULD KILL ME,
i also suffer from arachnoid cysts in the theoriac region, the NC also told me i could not be adjusted, im too dangerous.
im now waiting for tests on a conditon called cadasil
MS still hasnt been ruled out.
so in some cases adjustments are wonderful, and in others it can cause more damage, i feel with any alternative treatment you do have to be careful,
no disrepect is any chiroprators here, im sure they have helped alot of people, but it does make you question when is it right to have adjustments,
i always got told that your body will do it naturally.
plus you cant change the blue print of your body
i hope it goes well for you and you get the results that your looking for
surgery is abig step, and not one to take lightly,
please keep me informed how it goes
neava
in most cases chiari malformation decompression surgery is to remove part of the bone on the back of the skull, and replaced with another material, this allows more room so the brain and fluids have more room, and dont cause overcrowding, its very rare for the neck to be changed,
this surgery is a dangerous one, it can also make things worse, or bring on other symtoms,
but of course if you see surgeons, they love to operate so in some cases they will want to do it, but doesnt mean it will help
neava
this surgery is a dangerous one, it can also make things worse, or bring on other symtoms,
but of course if you see surgeons, they love to operate so in some cases they will want to do it, but doesnt mean it will help
neava
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uprightdoc
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Hello Neava,
Physical therapy is one of the first options to consider in treating a Chiari malformation. Surgery is the last due to significant risks.
When you say chiropractic adjustments could kill a Chiari patient are you referring to symptomatic or the asymptomatic silent type Chiari malformations or both? Does it include Chiari 0 and Chiari 1 malformations with no herniation of the brainstem or cerebellum into the foramen magnum?
When you say adjustments, which type of chiropractic corrective procedure are you referring to? Do you mean to include NUCCA, AO, Blair, SOT, AK, Cox Spinal Decompression, activator method and cervical traction?
Physical therapy is one of the first options to consider in treating a Chiari malformation. Surgery is the last due to significant risks.
When you say chiropractic adjustments could kill a Chiari patient are you referring to symptomatic or the asymptomatic silent type Chiari malformations or both? Does it include Chiari 0 and Chiari 1 malformations with no herniation of the brainstem or cerebellum into the foramen magnum?
When you say adjustments, which type of chiropractic corrective procedure are you referring to? Do you mean to include NUCCA, AO, Blair, SOT, AK, Cox Spinal Decompression, activator method and cervical traction?
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DrKoontzDC
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neava wrote:
(in nz we have xrays done instead or mri to see if anythings wrong, the problem with that, if you other issues going on it wont show,)
Chiropractors are taught to read MRI's but we do not take them. Currently MRI's are of little to no value in determining how a chiropractic adjustment is made. Mostly they are only good for diagnostic purposes which again have little to no bearing on how the adjustments are performed. X-Rays are preferred in Chiropractic because it allows us to analyze the spine in a "weight bearing" position and take proper measurements to analyze how the spine has misaligned so we will know which way the individual vertebrae should be adjusted.
i had a chiroprator tell me i had a break in my lumber region, my mri shows my disks are narrowing)
when you say "break" what do you mean? Can you be more specific as to what he meant?
also my mri showed a chiari malformation, this is also dangerous if having adjustments,
i spoke to a nuero chrioprator not far from my home town, he told me that if he adjustments me, IT COULD KILL ME,
I would really like to view any digital copies of your x-rays & MRI's. This is honestly the first time I have ever heard that not only could someone not be adjusted but that adjusting them could kill them. As I've stated before no one has ever died from a Chiropractic Adjustment.
There are some out there who believe that adjusting the Upper Cervical spine, even in normal people, is dangerous and should be avoided at all costs due to the close proximity of the first and second vertebrae to the brain stem. This line of thinking only comes out of fear. It is sad those people think this way because it is exactly because of the close proximity to the brain stem that the upper cervical spine should be checked and adjusted when necessary.
Let me try to explain why I know it would be safe to adjust your upper cervical spine. Your body was made to move. It is not a fragile rigid stick that will snap in two when pressure is applied. Why is this? The spine has joints, and joints allow for movement. Adjustments are done along the plane line of the joint which allows the bone to slide back in to it's proper position. It does not stretch or pull your spine like traction therapy. It is the application of a force along the plane line of the joint which naturally and easily allows the bones to slide back in to their proper position unlocking and restoring proper motion to the spine thus taking pressure off the nerves. If the joints are locked, movement is restricted and the body is forced to compensate for the restricted motion. The compensations the body creates do not always produce a desirable outcome. These undesirable compensations can also exacerbate symptoms associated with congenital anomalies such as chiari malformations.
As I've stated before in this thread, general chiropractors, even chiropractors with a neurology diplomat, if they are not trained in the specifics of Upper Cervical Chiropractic, are not capable of making a safe and specific upper cervical adjustment that will remove pressure from the brain stem restoring proper nerve function between the brain and the rest of the body.
i also suffer from arachnoid cysts in the theoriac region, the NC also told me i could not be adjusted, im too dangerous.
I would have to disagree here for the same reasons I gave above. As long as a full spine chiropractor performs the adjustments as specifically as possible, along the joint plane line, moving the bones that are out of alignment back in to their proper position, there is nothing to be concerned with. I'm not trying to disparage the chiropractor you saw but it is my opinion that he chose not to adjust you out of fear which also tells me he is not confident in his adjusting skills.
I'd also like to add that in the United States the cost of malpractice insurance for a Chiropractor is extremely low because it is generally recognized as being safe. The cost of malpractice for a Medical Doctor is astronomical in comparison.
I'm really sorry you haven't had a better experience when visiting chiropractors. I highly suggest you schedule an appointment with one or both of the Upper Cervical Chiropractors whose names I gave you. Both use a light force Upper Cervical Technique which should help alleviate any concerns you might have.
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blossom
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ccsvi
hi dr. flanagan, i had finally started nucca. i got approximatly 6 treatments with nothing great to report yet. although after the 3rd treatment i had a different strength about me that held 2 days. he has me going to see him 2 times a week. my brother said it seemed i was moving a little better. ???
then 2 weeks ago i caught a very bad flu or something that is going around that the coughing etc. kept me awake 3 days and most ms patients know how something like this just knocks you for a loop. they say most normal people it takes a good 4 weeks to get over it. so, it looks like i'll be starting from scratch. needless to say all this besides being so sick pretty much has me depressed.
i go to n.y. get ccsvi treatment and in a couple weeks have to have emergency appendix surgery. i figure that didn't help matters much. then i start nucca and get this which is not good. i have not even had as much as a cold for at least 8 yrs. really health wise i was good. great timing right.
anyway, i didn't fall off the face of the earth and i hope in another wk. i can get back on track. i'm fighting the odds i know with the condition my spine is in but i believe so strongly that there is a spinal connection to all this that i have to try the best i can. it may not be the total picture but it is a big part of it that should only enhance and help any other treatments that may come up.
so glad to see others trying this and a lot of them seeing improvements.
i would hope soon that you and your field of medicine is brought to the front and included as it should be in the research now going on. it's beyond me that you are not being included right there with the others with your knowledge you have to offer to this complex and terrible disease.
thanks again, i'll post when i have any news. hopefully for the good.
then 2 weeks ago i caught a very bad flu or something that is going around that the coughing etc. kept me awake 3 days and most ms patients know how something like this just knocks you for a loop. they say most normal people it takes a good 4 weeks to get over it. so, it looks like i'll be starting from scratch. needless to say all this besides being so sick pretty much has me depressed.
i go to n.y. get ccsvi treatment and in a couple weeks have to have emergency appendix surgery. i figure that didn't help matters much. then i start nucca and get this which is not good. i have not even had as much as a cold for at least 8 yrs. really health wise i was good. great timing right.
anyway, i didn't fall off the face of the earth and i hope in another wk. i can get back on track. i'm fighting the odds i know with the condition my spine is in but i believe so strongly that there is a spinal connection to all this that i have to try the best i can. it may not be the total picture but it is a big part of it that should only enhance and help any other treatments that may come up.
so glad to see others trying this and a lot of them seeing improvements.
i would hope soon that you and your field of medicine is brought to the front and included as it should be in the research now going on. it's beyond me that you are not being included right there with the others with your knowledge you have to offer to this complex and terrible disease.
thanks again, i'll post when i have any news. hopefully for the good.
Blossom,
You poor thing. So sorry to hear of your setback with the flu. I wish I could bring you some homemade chicken noodle soup.
Influenza is most worrisome, so please make sure you're getting enough fluids which is most concerning for you from a vasculature standpoint because the circulatory system is one of the first systems to suffer when dehydration starts, and you need your veins (the walls of which form the BBB) in their best possible shape.
I promise, once you recover, you'll quickly get right back to those two days when you were feeling stronger... keep in mind over the coming days/weeks that your spine CAN be helped... with a bit of help from prayers, good vibes, plenty of fluids, and for when you're feeling better, chiro again. You can do it. We'll hang in there with you.
Hoping you feel better soon.
Sending prayers and good vibes.
You poor thing. So sorry to hear of your setback with the flu. I wish I could bring you some homemade chicken noodle soup.
Influenza is most worrisome, so please make sure you're getting enough fluids which is most concerning for you from a vasculature standpoint because the circulatory system is one of the first systems to suffer when dehydration starts, and you need your veins (the walls of which form the BBB) in their best possible shape.
I promise, once you recover, you'll quickly get right back to those two days when you were feeling stronger... keep in mind over the coming days/weeks that your spine CAN be helped... with a bit of help from prayers, good vibes, plenty of fluids, and for when you're feeling better, chiro again. You can do it. We'll hang in there with you.
Hoping you feel better soon.
Sending prayers and good vibes.
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blossom
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ccsvi
thank you happy poet. your thoughts are healing. i'll follow your advice.
i just hope none of you get this. a friend of mine in n. carolina just got over it so it is not a local germ or virus. and it is rough. there have been several people i know of that were hospitalized with pneumonia.
i just hope none of you get this. a friend of mine in n. carolina just got over it so it is not a local germ or virus. and it is rough. there have been several people i know of that were hospitalized with pneumonia.
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uprightdoc
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Hello Blossom,
It's good to hear from you. I was just about to email you to find out how you are doing. I am sorry to hear not so well but your tough and the flu will pass. Take Poet's advice and get the chicken soup going even if it's out of can. It will warm your core body temperature. Season it with pepper, parsley sage and thyme. Both pepper and sage (salvia) are warming and good for general circulation. Parsley and thyme are antibacterial and antiviral.
It's too soon so hang in there with the NUCCA. You're right. Your spine is the cause of your problems. You are also correct as you have been saying right along that the spurs are the problem. It also makes sense as you noticed, that tilting your head back increases your strength. Tilting your head back takes tension off the cord and creates more space in the spinal canal in your case. It is the opposite of a Lehermitte's maneuver.
It's hard to tell how much permanent damage has been done to the nervous system but if NUCCA can get you back closer to plumb, it will be like tilting your head back. It will create more space in the spinal canal and take pressure off the cord.
In the mean time, get well and keep me posted. I look forward to seeing your post x-rays if and when the doctor takes them.
It's good to hear from you. I was just about to email you to find out how you are doing. I am sorry to hear not so well but your tough and the flu will pass. Take Poet's advice and get the chicken soup going even if it's out of can. It will warm your core body temperature. Season it with pepper, parsley sage and thyme. Both pepper and sage (salvia) are warming and good for general circulation. Parsley and thyme are antibacterial and antiviral.
It's too soon so hang in there with the NUCCA. You're right. Your spine is the cause of your problems. You are also correct as you have been saying right along that the spurs are the problem. It also makes sense as you noticed, that tilting your head back increases your strength. Tilting your head back takes tension off the cord and creates more space in the spinal canal in your case. It is the opposite of a Lehermitte's maneuver.
It's hard to tell how much permanent damage has been done to the nervous system but if NUCCA can get you back closer to plumb, it will be like tilting your head back. It will create more space in the spinal canal and take pressure off the cord.
In the mean time, get well and keep me posted. I look forward to seeing your post x-rays if and when the doctor takes them.
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uprightdoc
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