Snake Venom as Treatment for Multiple Sclerosis

[Quest56]

I just came across this in the NYTimes:

Mr. Haast and a Miami doctor treated more than 6,000 people with a snake-venom serum that they and their patients contended was effective against multiple sclerosis and arthritis. After the CBS News program “60 Minutes” did a report on the subject in December 1979, interest in the serum surged. But in 1980 the Food and Drug Administration banned the product as useless after saying that numerous deficiencies had been found in Mr. Haast’s manufacturing process. Nevertheless, researchers have continued to work on drugs made from venom in the hope of using it to treat cancer, Alzheimer’s and other diseases.

Effective against MS? Maybe at least for some people.

Here's a link to the complete article:

Bill Haast, a man charmed by snakes, dies at 100

Any members still around who found benefit from this treatment? Perhaps any who are still using it?

Perhaps snake venom increases blood flow to/from the brain?

Not that I'm considering...

--Tracy

[LokeRundt]

Lol, of course the FDA cracked down on them. . .and then continued in research. They want the patent, so they can make a killing (no pun intended) off of it while keeping any generic brands off the market.

[gainsbourg]

Bee venom, snake venom, jellyfish, scorpion venom - have all been claimed to be effective against MS. I believe it is because venom may inhibit or destroy the many varieties of herpes virus which have a strong association with MS.

Following experiments with rats, cobra venom is thought to be the only substance in the world that can actually kill herpes.

Nobody knows why, but during MS attacks herpes virus antibodies increase 500 fold in the spinal fluid. These antibodies are only found in the spinal fluid of those with MS. I believe the mere presence of herpes virus at the base of nerve ganglia periodically "scares" the immune system into attacking healthy tissue.

[Quest56]

Bee venom, snake venom, jellyfish, scorpion venom - have all been claimed to be effective against MS. I believe it is because venom may inhibit or destroy the many varieties of herpes virus which have a strong association with MS.

I like this, but how does this play out in relation to stenosis of the internal jugular veins, breakdown of the blood brain barrier, the chlamydia virus, CCSVI, etc?

It occurs to me that looking for a single cause of MS is a task similar to looking for the Grand Theory of Everything in particle physics (TOE).

A theory of everything (TOE) is a putative theory of theoretical physics that fully explains and links together all known physical phenomena, and predicts the outcome of any experiment that could be carried out in principle.
The theory of everything is also called the final theory.[1] Many candidate theories of everything have been proposed by theoretical physicists during the twentieth century, but none have been confirmed experimentally. The primary problem in producing a TOE is that general relativity and quantum mechanics are hard to unify. This is one of the unsolved problems in physics.

And, MS is one of the still unsolved problems in medicine. Maybe someday.

--Tracy

[gainsbourg]

Hi Tracy,

Improving circulation by fixing veins seems to help many with MS, and good luck to anyone having treatment - but since the repeated finding that CCSVI also occurs frequently in healthy people (approx 22-25%) it means that having CCSVI is more common in human beings than being left handed! Seeing as only 0.001% of the world's population actually develop MS, it seems unlikely therefore that CCSVI could cause the disease.

I also believe the breaching of the BBB is most likely caused by MS rather than the other way round. After all, BBB disruption is sometimes found in other neurolgical diseases, such as CIDP.

I've noticed that the common denominator linking MS and herpes is stress. For my money stress is a big, underestimated factor in MS genesis. It is completely unknown why stress so often precipitates MS attacks. Stress is also notorious for bringing on all manner of herpes attacks - again scientists have absolutely no idea why. In fact stress is just about the only factor of any kind known to consistently precede both herpes and MS attacks alike.

Maybe stress somehow stimulates the immune system into action in order to protect myelin and other nerve tissue from possible herpes attack, (that would explain why the herpes antibodies appear in the spinal fluid) but ironically, the virus does not appear to attack myelin. However, the immune system attacks the myelin regardless of this. Remember, herpes is weird stuff - every decade we seem to double our knowledge of it.

Bring on the venom I say!


gainsbourg

[NHE]

Improving circulation by fixing veins seems to help many with MS, and good luck to anyone having treatment - but since the repeated finding that CCSVI also occurs frequently in healthy people (approx 22-25%) it means that having CCSVI is more common in human beings than being left handed! Seeing as only 0.001% of the world's population actually develop MS, it seems unlikely therefore that CCSVI could cause the disease.

The number of controls testing positive for CCSVI is still to be determined. The 22-25% figure that you cited is unlikely to be the final word on this topic. For example, in the preliminary results from Kuwait, only 7% of 100 healthy controls had impaired venous flow via Doppler analysis. In contrast, 87% of 100 MS patients were positive.

http://www.ccsvikuwait.com/Details.aspx?d=4

Control group N=100 patient without MS

Kuwaiti: non Kuwaiti % ······ 48:52
Male: female % ··············· 25:75
Age min-max ················· 23-57
mean ±SD ····················· 39.7±7.8
Positive Duplex ··············· 7%
Normal Duplex ················ 93%


Study group N=100 patient with MS

Started colour Doppler screening of neck veins as protocol of Prof. Zamboni

Kuwaiti: non Kuwaiti % ····· 100
Male: female % ·············· 48:52
Age min-max ················ 22-57
Positive Duplex ·············· 87%
Positive MRV ················· 96%

NHE

[gainsbourg]

That's interesting about the Kuwait figure as I was unaware it was so much lower - but even if its as low as 7%, these studies keep on finding CCSVI in healthy controls.

About 10% of the world are left handed - so having CCSVI is almost as common as being left handed. By this reckoning CCSVI cannot cause MS or considerably more than 0.001% of the world's population would have the disease.

I have no wish to dampen the hopes of the many who've had or wish to have treatment for CCSVI. I've no doubt that MS puts a strain on the vasculature and if personal testimony is anything to go by, fixing veins sometimes helps with MS symptoms.

Returning to the venom findings, from what I have read the FDA had no justification for stepping in and ending those trials. I am convinced that venom works because it kills off or inhibits herpes varicella and other forms of herpes which have an association with MS.

[BrianPHanley]

The best review on venoms and MS I know of is this one.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0807001293 - Venom therapy in multiple sclerosis. Abbas Mirshafiey 2007
There are several modes of action.
If you can't get the article, contact me.

[vesta]

MS was described as a "rigidity disorder by Dr Charcot who first described it in the 19th century. My own thinking is that stress compresses a compromised vascular system leading to venous blood "refluxes" into the brain (CCSVI) which damages the nerves which then "misfire" leading to muscles cramps and spasms (and body rigidity). And the rigidity itself can further impede blood/cerebrospinal fluid circulation through the CNS leaving one open to more stress attacks. (ANY illness, virus can set off this process, but the EBV virus looks like an important factor. If a latent herpes virus leaves one open to muscle cramping illness, and the venom destroys the virus, well, why not?). See MS Feedback Loop posted here under CCSVI Dec 13, 2014
(previously published on MS Cure Enigmas.net)
Regards, Vesta

[David1949]

Well I can only say that a sufficient dose of snake venom will end all of your problems... permanently.

I'm usually willing to try unconventional approaches to MS but I think I'll pass on this one.

[Cece]

About 10% of the world are left handed - so having CCSVI is almost as common as being left handed. By this reckoning CCSVI cannot cause MS or considerably more than 0.001% of the world's population would have the disease.

It seems more likely that, instead of one-to-one causation, CCSVI would be a promoter of MS. The common example given is cigarettes and lung cancer. Not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer, but in those that do, the smoking promoted the chances of getting lung cancer. Similarly not everyone who has CCSVI gets MS, but in those that do, the CCSVI may have promoted the MS. You would expect more smokers among the cancer group and you would expect more CCSVIers among the MS group, which is what is being seen.

Venom should be investigated as well, if there is indication that it might work.