When stressed, I sometimes clench my teeth, and while asleep, I often grind them, too. I wonder how many pwMS/CCSVI have these and similar types of problems.The Dentist was VERY interesting. Talked about how lack of vitamin D causes an undeveloped skull--excess pressure on the venous system leading to CCSVI and how stress causes even more pressure. The hole in the skull where the jugular is affected by our jaw and clenching our teeth when under pressure puts extra pressure on the jugular. Didn't hear the part about how this causes malformation of the veins. Anyone hear that part? This could be why not everyone benefits from venoplasty. Got to relax. My family is known for always clenching our jaws when under stress. My MS appeared after being diagnosed with it and the stress caused by that.
CCSVI and CCVBP
Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Hi DrF, thought you might be interested in this Facebook post about the dentist Dr. Williams' presentation during the 36-hour CCSVI Expo this past weekend:
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uprightdoc
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Hi Poet,
I spoke to Dr. Williams over a year ago.
Dr. Zamboni's theory is that MS is caused by insufficient drainage of the brain and due to poor flow through the internal jugulars due to design flaws such as stenosis and septums etc. in the veins.
Dr. Williams' theory is that MS is caused by lack of sunshine vitamen D and TMJ problems due to clenching the teeth.
My theory is that humans are predisposed to drainage problems and NPH due to the unique designs of the skull, spine and circulatory system of the brain as a result of upright posture. Inherited (genetic) and acquired (aging and injuries) strains and deformation of the cervical spine, especially the upper cervical spine can decrease blood flow through the vertebral-basilar arteries and vertebral veins as well as CSF flow through the subarachnoid spaces going into and out of the brain. This can lead to chronic ischemia, edema and normal pressure hydrocephalus, which in turn can initiate a cascade of neurodegenerative processes and subsequent diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and multiple sclerosis.
The first two theories fail to explain the significant gender, geographic and racial differences in the incidence of MS. My theory explains all three and makes the most sense so far.
I spoke to Dr. Williams over a year ago.
Dr. Zamboni's theory is that MS is caused by insufficient drainage of the brain and due to poor flow through the internal jugulars due to design flaws such as stenosis and septums etc. in the veins.
Dr. Williams' theory is that MS is caused by lack of sunshine vitamen D and TMJ problems due to clenching the teeth.
My theory is that humans are predisposed to drainage problems and NPH due to the unique designs of the skull, spine and circulatory system of the brain as a result of upright posture. Inherited (genetic) and acquired (aging and injuries) strains and deformation of the cervical spine, especially the upper cervical spine can decrease blood flow through the vertebral-basilar arteries and vertebral veins as well as CSF flow through the subarachnoid spaces going into and out of the brain. This can lead to chronic ischemia, edema and normal pressure hydrocephalus, which in turn can initiate a cascade of neurodegenerative processes and subsequent diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and multiple sclerosis.
The first two theories fail to explain the significant gender, geographic and racial differences in the incidence of MS. My theory explains all three and makes the most sense so far.
Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Hello Dr. F.
Most interesting comparison of potentially contributing vein obstructions that may give rise to substantial venous reflux. By my reading, Sal Sclafani, Michael Arata and some others seem to say about 80% of the reflux problems they observe arise from valvular problems. Franz Schelling seems to prefer the substantial head/neck trauma notion, Robert Zivadinov documents many vein malformations, such as webs, flaps, septums (septa?) etc as possibilities, and with your addition of cervical/skull deformaties, all seem like reasonable potential causes for the veins to be reduced in cross section thus causing venous reflux. If one looks at the collision of a venous inflow pulse with a reflux pulse, the total resulting pressure is the sum of the two pulses. By any notion this would seem to be hypertension at that point in the vein. If the pulse rate, flow velocity and distance from the obstruction to the venule end of the capillary bed (where MS lesions primarily occur) are such that the hypertensive (pulse summation) region is in the venules, then it probably doesn't matter much what causes the obstruction. Indeed, it seems reasonable that, in many cases, it could be a combination of these obstruction types.
The amount of hypertension in the venules would be reduced if the vein between the venules and the obstruction were very elastic (more compliant) - then that section of vein would expand more and thereby reduce the required pressure in the vein. Conversely, more pressure (greater hypertension) in the venules would occur when the vein is less compliant. Things that make the vein less compliant, hence increase hypertension and the risk of blood-brain barrier disruption and hence increased MS risk include:
a. Being female (vein compliance 50% less than male)
b. Cigarette smoking
c. Epstein-Barr virus
d. Vitamin D deficiency
e. Aging
f. Hypoxia
g. Others?
Trev. Tucker
Most interesting comparison of potentially contributing vein obstructions that may give rise to substantial venous reflux. By my reading, Sal Sclafani, Michael Arata and some others seem to say about 80% of the reflux problems they observe arise from valvular problems. Franz Schelling seems to prefer the substantial head/neck trauma notion, Robert Zivadinov documents many vein malformations, such as webs, flaps, septums (septa?) etc as possibilities, and with your addition of cervical/skull deformaties, all seem like reasonable potential causes for the veins to be reduced in cross section thus causing venous reflux. If one looks at the collision of a venous inflow pulse with a reflux pulse, the total resulting pressure is the sum of the two pulses. By any notion this would seem to be hypertension at that point in the vein. If the pulse rate, flow velocity and distance from the obstruction to the venule end of the capillary bed (where MS lesions primarily occur) are such that the hypertensive (pulse summation) region is in the venules, then it probably doesn't matter much what causes the obstruction. Indeed, it seems reasonable that, in many cases, it could be a combination of these obstruction types.
The amount of hypertension in the venules would be reduced if the vein between the venules and the obstruction were very elastic (more compliant) - then that section of vein would expand more and thereby reduce the required pressure in the vein. Conversely, more pressure (greater hypertension) in the venules would occur when the vein is less compliant. Things that make the vein less compliant, hence increase hypertension and the risk of blood-brain barrier disruption and hence increased MS risk include:
a. Being female (vein compliance 50% less than male)
b. Cigarette smoking
c. Epstein-Barr virus
d. Vitamin D deficiency
e. Aging
f. Hypoxia
g. Others?
Trev. Tucker
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uprightdoc
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Hello Mr. Tucker,
I very much enjoyed your presentation of the physics of fluid flow. Two of my brothers have graduate degrees in civil engineering. One writes software for finite element analysis. One of his programs is used for stents. He was surprised when I told him that surgeons were using stents in veins. My other brother is a tunnel expert and works with TBMs. He deals a lot with fluid, rock and soil mechanics. My father was an electrical engineer. My grandfather was a machinist educated in Scotland.
I agree with your theory on standing waves and local venous hypertension. When it comes to the classic supratentorial, perivenular and periventricular lesions seen in MS I tend to agree with Schelling that they are caused by violent venous inversion flows (back jets). The impact of the venous inversion flows on the brain is affected by the design of the skull and the pitch and layout of the dural sinuses. The face heavy design of the European skull increases its swing weight which affects venous inversion flows in whiplash type traumas. The pitch and layout of the dural sinues are affected by the design of the posterior fossa which varies between races and genders. In addition to destructive venous waves, I suspect standing CSF waves and water hammers cause damage in the brain when unchecked. The standing CSF waves and water hammers are caused by obstruction to flow through the vertebral veins in the spinal canal such as from spondylosis (degeneration of the spine), stenosis ( narrowing of the spinal canal) and curvature problems such as scoliosis and kyphosis.
The gender differences in elasticity of the veins fails to explain why Asian and African females, and European females living in southern lattitudes don't get MS. Vitamen D deficiency similarly fails to explain why Asian and African people don't get MS while northern European children who move to sunny climates after childhood have the same incidence of MS as those living in nothern climates with less sun like the area they came from. Lack of sunshine vitamen D also fails to explain why Eskimos don't get MS, the same as other Asians living in northern climates with short days. Nor does exposure to adequate sunshine reverse, slow down or determine the severity, course or progression of the condition. Some patients living in norhern climates have mild cases of MS while some patients living in sunny climates have severe MS.
I very much enjoyed your presentation of the physics of fluid flow. Two of my brothers have graduate degrees in civil engineering. One writes software for finite element analysis. One of his programs is used for stents. He was surprised when I told him that surgeons were using stents in veins. My other brother is a tunnel expert and works with TBMs. He deals a lot with fluid, rock and soil mechanics. My father was an electrical engineer. My grandfather was a machinist educated in Scotland.
I agree with your theory on standing waves and local venous hypertension. When it comes to the classic supratentorial, perivenular and periventricular lesions seen in MS I tend to agree with Schelling that they are caused by violent venous inversion flows (back jets). The impact of the venous inversion flows on the brain is affected by the design of the skull and the pitch and layout of the dural sinuses. The face heavy design of the European skull increases its swing weight which affects venous inversion flows in whiplash type traumas. The pitch and layout of the dural sinues are affected by the design of the posterior fossa which varies between races and genders. In addition to destructive venous waves, I suspect standing CSF waves and water hammers cause damage in the brain when unchecked. The standing CSF waves and water hammers are caused by obstruction to flow through the vertebral veins in the spinal canal such as from spondylosis (degeneration of the spine), stenosis ( narrowing of the spinal canal) and curvature problems such as scoliosis and kyphosis.
The gender differences in elasticity of the veins fails to explain why Asian and African females, and European females living in southern lattitudes don't get MS. Vitamen D deficiency similarly fails to explain why Asian and African people don't get MS while northern European children who move to sunny climates after childhood have the same incidence of MS as those living in nothern climates with less sun like the area they came from. Lack of sunshine vitamen D also fails to explain why Eskimos don't get MS, the same as other Asians living in northern climates with short days. Nor does exposure to adequate sunshine reverse, slow down or determine the severity, course or progression of the condition. Some patients living in norhern climates have mild cases of MS while some patients living in sunny climates have severe MS.
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cheerleader
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Endothelial dysfunction may be the missing piece, and can explain the many discrepancies in MS distribution across populations, because it is created by a myriad of environmental factors. Low vitamin D, low vitamin B12, stress, cortisol, female hormonal shifts, saturated dietary fats, processed foods, lack of antioxidants, EBV, cpn, heavy metals, toxins, smoking and other environmental factors all change nitric oxide distribution and cause endothelial dysfunction.
For example-MS rates were once low in Kuwait. MS was unheard of. Since the introduction of fast food restaurants and the western diet, MS, obesity, cardiovascular disease and diabetes rates are soaring. In one generation. The saturated fats, red meat, and glucose in a westen diet create high homocysteine and C-reactive protein levels, and endothelial dysfunction.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2007/08/26 ... 1993-2000/
74% of Kuwaitis are now overweight-
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-05-06/worl ... s=PM:WORLD
Endothelial dysfunction changes serum hemodynamics and can compound oxidative stress and hypoxia, through hypercoagulation and vasoconstriction. It can make the impact of a venous malformation or a skeletal malformation worse. But the good news is that many environmental factors can be dealt with and mitigated through diet, exercise, lifestyle changes and supplementation. The endothelium controls blood brain barrier permeability, as well as larger vessels' lining. Hope the doctors will look at the research I put together:
http://www.ccsvi.org/index.php/helping- ... ial-health
respectufully submitted-
cheer
For example-MS rates were once low in Kuwait. MS was unheard of. Since the introduction of fast food restaurants and the western diet, MS, obesity, cardiovascular disease and diabetes rates are soaring. In one generation. The saturated fats, red meat, and glucose in a westen diet create high homocysteine and C-reactive protein levels, and endothelial dysfunction.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2007/08/26 ... 1993-2000/
74% of Kuwaitis are now overweight-
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-05-06/worl ... s=PM:WORLD
Endothelial dysfunction changes serum hemodynamics and can compound oxidative stress and hypoxia, through hypercoagulation and vasoconstriction. It can make the impact of a venous malformation or a skeletal malformation worse. But the good news is that many environmental factors can be dealt with and mitigated through diet, exercise, lifestyle changes and supplementation. The endothelium controls blood brain barrier permeability, as well as larger vessels' lining. Hope the doctors will look at the research I put together:
http://www.ccsvi.org/index.php/helping- ... ial-health
respectufully submitted-
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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blossom
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
happypoet,
i "had" the tmj very bad after my fall. i was always one to clench my teeth under stress anyway. even had the mouth piece made by a dentist etc. but, my precious dog Sadie managed to chew it up. chiro.'s did not help BUT, when going to a nucca chiro. a few yrs. ago the tmj along with low back pain went away. just last summer my jaw clicked wrong and guess what the jaw pain was back along with the low back pain. nucca helped again.
i feel some with what they named ms may have maybe one thing that is messing with the csf flow and blood flow, others more than one thing.
"dr. flanagan's explanation covers it best." - the tmj for some could hold answers others cheerleader's research "a healthy diet is good no matter what" and it makes sence. and some we all have heard of claim to have been cured with diet alone. in someways we all have our own path--after all we have symtoms that someone else decided to lump together and call ms. in mainstream med. we lost our individuality a long time ago.
i am excited to see this discussion. we need all walks of med. dr. flanagan's knowledge of the spine and his research cannot be disputed. i feel 100 per cent my screwed up spine brought my symptoms on. but, if i can get it corrected somewhat i don't have a problem tweeking anything else that may help some things. but, first the spine! remembering one shoe won't fit all and some may need a couple of pairs just for the extra mile.
i "had" the tmj very bad after my fall. i was always one to clench my teeth under stress anyway. even had the mouth piece made by a dentist etc. but, my precious dog Sadie managed to chew it up. chiro.'s did not help BUT, when going to a nucca chiro. a few yrs. ago the tmj along with low back pain went away. just last summer my jaw clicked wrong and guess what the jaw pain was back along with the low back pain. nucca helped again.
i feel some with what they named ms may have maybe one thing that is messing with the csf flow and blood flow, others more than one thing.
"dr. flanagan's explanation covers it best." - the tmj for some could hold answers others cheerleader's research "a healthy diet is good no matter what" and it makes sence. and some we all have heard of claim to have been cured with diet alone. in someways we all have our own path--after all we have symtoms that someone else decided to lump together and call ms. in mainstream med. we lost our individuality a long time ago.
i am excited to see this discussion. we need all walks of med. dr. flanagan's knowledge of the spine and his research cannot be disputed. i feel 100 per cent my screwed up spine brought my symptoms on. but, if i can get it corrected somewhat i don't have a problem tweeking anything else that may help some things. but, first the spine! remembering one shoe won't fit all and some may need a couple of pairs just for the extra mile.
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blossom
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
dr. flanagan,
this afternoon i got the call from pitt. dr. they want me to come in dec. 21. i asked the nurse callling if this means that after looking at my mri and x-rays the dr. feels he can help the problems i have with my spine. she said yes!!
this one i did not put ms in my med. history on the form i sent. i for sure had appendix out, for sure had a hysterectomy, for sure have high blood pressure. i've always been told "probable ms"-doesn't probable mean maybe or could be? regardless---he's a spine dr. and he acknowledges i have spinal problems. sooo here i go. have to admit sometimes the idea of someone snipping around my spine scares me pretty bad and i don't take this lightly. not one single thing has been easy for over 20 yrs. i hope the next 20 can be easier.
this afternoon i got the call from pitt. dr. they want me to come in dec. 21. i asked the nurse callling if this means that after looking at my mri and x-rays the dr. feels he can help the problems i have with my spine. she said yes!!
this one i did not put ms in my med. history on the form i sent. i for sure had appendix out, for sure had a hysterectomy, for sure have high blood pressure. i've always been told "probable ms"-doesn't probable mean maybe or could be? regardless---he's a spine dr. and he acknowledges i have spinal problems. sooo here i go. have to admit sometimes the idea of someone snipping around my spine scares me pretty bad and i don't take this lightly. not one single thing has been easy for over 20 yrs. i hope the next 20 can be easier.
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uprightdoc
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Hello Cheerleader,
While endothelial dysfunction sounds fascinating, when it comes to MS lesions, and overall health for that matter, it's hard to imagine why it is so selective in affecting such discrete areas of myelin in the brain while sparing it in most areas of the brain and the cord. It's further hard to imagine why endothelial dysfunction would tend to affect the myelin higher up in the core of the brain, above the tentorium and surounding the ventricles, while sparing the veins lower down in the posterior fossa. The dural sinuses of the posterior fossa are the first to feel the impact of insufficient venous drainage and inversion flows. It also seems to me that if endothelium dysfunction was due to poor diet and environmental causes it would have more of a systemic impact on the body similar to obsesity, cardiovascular disease and diabetes.
While endothelial dysfunction sounds fascinating, when it comes to MS lesions, and overall health for that matter, it's hard to imagine why it is so selective in affecting such discrete areas of myelin in the brain while sparing it in most areas of the brain and the cord. It's further hard to imagine why endothelial dysfunction would tend to affect the myelin higher up in the core of the brain, above the tentorium and surounding the ventricles, while sparing the veins lower down in the posterior fossa. The dural sinuses of the posterior fossa are the first to feel the impact of insufficient venous drainage and inversion flows. It also seems to me that if endothelium dysfunction was due to poor diet and environmental causes it would have more of a systemic impact on the body similar to obsesity, cardiovascular disease and diabetes.
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uprightdoc
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Hi Blossom,
The TMJ is biomechanically related to the upper cervical spine. One can affect the other.
Probable MS means that you probably have MS but lack specific signs such as classic lesions and O bands etc. Rather than MS I suspect your problems are due to spondylosis (degeneration) and curvature problems due to past traumas.
As far as neck surgery is concerned, endoscopic surgery is minimally invasive, causes far fewer problems and is much easier to recover from. The bigger concern is that it may not improve your signs and symptoms as surgeons have had less success with myelopathy (cord compression) than radiculopathy (spinal nerve root compression) due to spondylosis and stenosis. On the other hand, as you know, even though the bones spurs are very close in your case they aren't in contact with cord so you don't have myelopathy. Removing the bone spurs and protruding disc will definitely improve blood and CSF flow in the cord.
The TMJ is biomechanically related to the upper cervical spine. One can affect the other.
Probable MS means that you probably have MS but lack specific signs such as classic lesions and O bands etc. Rather than MS I suspect your problems are due to spondylosis (degeneration) and curvature problems due to past traumas.
As far as neck surgery is concerned, endoscopic surgery is minimally invasive, causes far fewer problems and is much easier to recover from. The bigger concern is that it may not improve your signs and symptoms as surgeons have had less success with myelopathy (cord compression) than radiculopathy (spinal nerve root compression) due to spondylosis and stenosis. On the other hand, as you know, even though the bones spurs are very close in your case they aren't in contact with cord so you don't have myelopathy. Removing the bone spurs and protruding disc will definitely improve blood and CSF flow in the cord.
Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Thanks for coming in on this discussion Joan,
I have to agree with Dr. F and Trev on this issue.
There are too many reasons why endothelial disruption is a minor issue. There are populations such as the US or NZ that would be smitten by MS if the endothelia dysfunction and diet were the "cause".
There has to be a primary issue to look for.
The possibility that diet alone is the factor is half of the picture, the primary reason has to be other than that.
The co-incidence that 'some' people have with spine injury the symptoms that are called "MS" or "TM" or many of the other dysfunctions is the most logical place to look for cause.
In the same way that spinal injury or de-generation can lead to the symptom 'batch' of MS there is also the vascular spectrum, which in essence is going to produce the symptom 'batch' for the same reasons as spinal problems.
If you decrease the flow of blood and have problems with reflux/back flow/pressure waves the content of the blood is going to be even more important, as is the function of blood removing byproducts, cooling, supplying nutrients and anti-oxidants and so on and so on.
Its a case of finding the primary cause, other wise the problem will re visit us (PwMS).
Opening flow and removing back flow is the objective, finding the cause of flow dysfunction is the problem, many possible causes and never one answer!
Staying focused on one 'Pet' reason is blocking out the other possibilities that need to be investigated by each individual.
We will each have our set of 'reasons' for vascular problems, the key is to define 'what' for each of us is the one that turns the tide! And look at the spectrum for other reasons that will compound a range of possibilities because we are finding the connections to other diseases and the cross overs of symptoms and disease labeling.
Regards All,
Nigel
I have to agree with Dr. F and Trev on this issue.
There are too many reasons why endothelial disruption is a minor issue. There are populations such as the US or NZ that would be smitten by MS if the endothelia dysfunction and diet were the "cause".
There has to be a primary issue to look for.
The possibility that diet alone is the factor is half of the picture, the primary reason has to be other than that.
The co-incidence that 'some' people have with spine injury the symptoms that are called "MS" or "TM" or many of the other dysfunctions is the most logical place to look for cause.
In the same way that spinal injury or de-generation can lead to the symptom 'batch' of MS there is also the vascular spectrum, which in essence is going to produce the symptom 'batch' for the same reasons as spinal problems.
If you decrease the flow of blood and have problems with reflux/back flow/pressure waves the content of the blood is going to be even more important, as is the function of blood removing byproducts, cooling, supplying nutrients and anti-oxidants and so on and so on.
Its a case of finding the primary cause, other wise the problem will re visit us (PwMS).
Opening flow and removing back flow is the objective, finding the cause of flow dysfunction is the problem, many possible causes and never one answer!
Staying focused on one 'Pet' reason is blocking out the other possibilities that need to be investigated by each individual.
We will each have our set of 'reasons' for vascular problems, the key is to define 'what' for each of us is the one that turns the tide! And look at the spectrum for other reasons that will compound a range of possibilities because we are finding the connections to other diseases and the cross overs of symptoms and disease labeling.
Regards All,
Nigel
Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
NZer and Cheer
Thanks for your most useful contributrions. My own perception is that endothelial health may be secondary in importance to the origins of MS only to the (high) pressure distribution in the venule region - but only slightly less because MS seems to be able to occur without measureable reflux. My simply analysis as described on the Global CCSVI Expo indicates that the high pressure regions where the incoming and reflected pulses intersect can be quite narrow and quite high. Also, their positions in the venule region will "wander" somewhat with factors like changing pulse rate. This behaviour may help to explain Mr. Flanagan's questioning with respect to lesion positions. My view is that as long as the argument remains at the arm-waving or "back of the envelope" type calculation level, progress will be very slow. As I see it, the breadth of knowledge offered by the "social media" community provides the opportunity to look for MS origins in all the potential contributing boxes simulateously, assuming all minds are open. It appears that the origins lie partly in the neurology box, but after 70 years of looking, that community has been unable to find the answer in its entirety in that particular box. I know with some certainty it does not lie in the technical box of my own educational background (electrical engineering).
So my encouragement would be to pursue a multi-disciplinary approach. My prognosis is that the patterns of blood flow and pressure in the sensitive venule region will turn out to be quite complex (and will probably involve non-Newtonian flow - ie like ketchup, not water). The flow and pressure patterns will also depend substantially on where and how much obstruction and the physical properties of the veins and venules themselves (which will depend, in turn, on many factors such as gender, genetics, geography, etc)
Trev. Tucker
Thanks for your most useful contributrions. My own perception is that endothelial health may be secondary in importance to the origins of MS only to the (high) pressure distribution in the venule region - but only slightly less because MS seems to be able to occur without measureable reflux. My simply analysis as described on the Global CCSVI Expo indicates that the high pressure regions where the incoming and reflected pulses intersect can be quite narrow and quite high. Also, their positions in the venule region will "wander" somewhat with factors like changing pulse rate. This behaviour may help to explain Mr. Flanagan's questioning with respect to lesion positions. My view is that as long as the argument remains at the arm-waving or "back of the envelope" type calculation level, progress will be very slow. As I see it, the breadth of knowledge offered by the "social media" community provides the opportunity to look for MS origins in all the potential contributing boxes simulateously, assuming all minds are open. It appears that the origins lie partly in the neurology box, but after 70 years of looking, that community has been unable to find the answer in its entirety in that particular box. I know with some certainty it does not lie in the technical box of my own educational background (electrical engineering).
So my encouragement would be to pursue a multi-disciplinary approach. My prognosis is that the patterns of blood flow and pressure in the sensitive venule region will turn out to be quite complex (and will probably involve non-Newtonian flow - ie like ketchup, not water). The flow and pressure patterns will also depend substantially on where and how much obstruction and the physical properties of the veins and venules themselves (which will depend, in turn, on many factors such as gender, genetics, geography, etc)
Trev. Tucker
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cheerleader
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Never said endothelial health is the sole issue. Environmental factors are known to impact MS severity, and we ignore them, and the overall connection to the vasculature, at our own peril.
For further information, one need only look at the research of Dr. Terry Wahls, Dr. George Jelinek, Dr. Ashton Embry and Dr. Roy Swank. All of these physicians found stability in MS progression for their patients and selves through diet, lifestyle and nutrition. Mechanics of the skeletal system and vasculature is only one aspect, the other is blood.
It was the research of Dr. John Cooke (endothelial researcher at Stanford, author of The Cardiovascular Cure) that began the connection for my family, and brought the Stanford team into the CCSVI discussion after I contacted him.
Dr. Cooke will be presenting at the ISNVD conference. His presentation is called "Effects of Hemodynamics on Endothelium Adhesion and Permeability."
I met Dr. J Stephen Alexander from LSU at the first Bologna conference and we had some wonderful discussions on blood flow and MS. He will be presenting at the ISNVD, as well. His presentation is "MS and Cerebral Endothelial Dysfunction".
Understanding CCSVI is a multi-disciplinary pursuit. So, it's not just some woman on an MS board with her theorectical ramblings. The researchers are making the connection.
respectfully,
cheer
For further information, one need only look at the research of Dr. Terry Wahls, Dr. George Jelinek, Dr. Ashton Embry and Dr. Roy Swank. All of these physicians found stability in MS progression for their patients and selves through diet, lifestyle and nutrition. Mechanics of the skeletal system and vasculature is only one aspect, the other is blood.
It was the research of Dr. John Cooke (endothelial researcher at Stanford, author of The Cardiovascular Cure) that began the connection for my family, and brought the Stanford team into the CCSVI discussion after I contacted him.
Dr. Cooke will be presenting at the ISNVD conference. His presentation is called "Effects of Hemodynamics on Endothelium Adhesion and Permeability."
I met Dr. J Stephen Alexander from LSU at the first Bologna conference and we had some wonderful discussions on blood flow and MS. He will be presenting at the ISNVD, as well. His presentation is "MS and Cerebral Endothelial Dysfunction".
Understanding CCSVI is a multi-disciplinary pursuit. So, it's not just some woman on an MS board with her theorectical ramblings. The researchers are making the connection.
respectfully,
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Thanks Trev,
I have been thinking more on what Joan has said about the influence of diet and would also think we should consider the fact that venous malformations are proven to be an issue.
Diet and hereditary factors are likely to be the main influence here. In the space of one generation the environment, diet, exercise, pollutants/toxins and gene pool will have a huge impact that could be compounded by the effects and then re-compound on those same effects.
The paper that has come out about the development of the vascular system highlights the embryotic stage as when the vascular problems develop. http://www.veithsymposium.org/pdf/vei/4772.pdf
The cause of the malformations is going to be a part of the answer to our questions. If there is a point in time (generation) when these malformations began having an influence on our health then we have an added factor and an added search for cause of these malformations.
There are other health issues such as Neural Stem development and spinal biforta(sp), that has been effected by low folate levels, in diet, invivio for instance.
Trev if I understand what you are saying about blood viscosity versus (water) fluid dynamics we have another set of possibles that are influenced by many more factors including temperature of the body and environment?
Regards Nigel
I have been thinking more on what Joan has said about the influence of diet and would also think we should consider the fact that venous malformations are proven to be an issue.
Diet and hereditary factors are likely to be the main influence here. In the space of one generation the environment, diet, exercise, pollutants/toxins and gene pool will have a huge impact that could be compounded by the effects and then re-compound on those same effects.
The paper that has come out about the development of the vascular system highlights the embryotic stage as when the vascular problems develop. http://www.veithsymposium.org/pdf/vei/4772.pdf
The cause of the malformations is going to be a part of the answer to our questions. If there is a point in time (generation) when these malformations began having an influence on our health then we have an added factor and an added search for cause of these malformations.
There are other health issues such as Neural Stem development and spinal biforta(sp), that has been effected by low folate levels, in diet, invivio for instance.
Trev if I understand what you are saying about blood viscosity versus (water) fluid dynamics we have another set of possibles that are influenced by many more factors including temperature of the body and environment?
Regards Nigel
Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
Joan I agree that the endothelial health is vitally important in this understanding.
Your comment about the effects of diet has been looked at from many angles and the one thing that I found and no doubt others have as well is that diet helps some types of disease expression but not all. This disease is influenced by diet for some disease types and at some stages in the disease but does not have a blanket improvement.
The degrees of vascular problems the position of those problems and the time duration these problems have been in existence is another example of how symptoms will differ between individuals.
The dx of 'MS' is another issue. Who really knows what MS is or how to describe and identify it.
So many things that are hypothesis' only!
It is beginning to sound like the 'matrix' of influencing factors and outcomes needs to be put into a 'super computer' to be understood better.
Regards Nigel
ps. " So, it's not just some woman on an MS board with her theorectical ramblings. ", where did that come from Joan?
Your comment about the effects of diet has been looked at from many angles and the one thing that I found and no doubt others have as well is that diet helps some types of disease expression but not all. This disease is influenced by diet for some disease types and at some stages in the disease but does not have a blanket improvement.
The degrees of vascular problems the position of those problems and the time duration these problems have been in existence is another example of how symptoms will differ between individuals.
The dx of 'MS' is another issue. Who really knows what MS is or how to describe and identify it.
So many things that are hypothesis' only!
It is beginning to sound like the 'matrix' of influencing factors and outcomes needs to be put into a 'super computer' to be understood better.
Regards Nigel
ps. " So, it's not just some woman on an MS board with her theorectical ramblings. ", where did that come from Joan?
Re: CCSVI and CCVBP
A quick comment or two.
Joan, I have the impression I may have inadvertently stepped on something sensitive, and if so please accept my regrets. You have been and are doing tremendous things for MS sufferers throughout the world. I am delighted you highlighted the papers on the relationship of endothelial health to MS to be presented in Orlando.
NZer, Your question "Trev if I understand what you are saying about blood viscosity versus (water) fluid dynamics we have another set of possibles that are influenced by many more factors including temperature of the body and environment?" - Yes a set of quite complex possibilities. As the venules become finer viscosity becomes more important and may concievably have an "amplifying effect" on the hypertensive pressure. This, combined with a weakened endothilium, sounds like a bad combination to me.
Trev. Tucker
Joan, I have the impression I may have inadvertently stepped on something sensitive, and if so please accept my regrets. You have been and are doing tremendous things for MS sufferers throughout the world. I am delighted you highlighted the papers on the relationship of endothelial health to MS to be presented in Orlando.
NZer, Your question "Trev if I understand what you are saying about blood viscosity versus (water) fluid dynamics we have another set of possibles that are influenced by many more factors including temperature of the body and environment?" - Yes a set of quite complex possibilities. As the venules become finer viscosity becomes more important and may concievably have an "amplifying effect" on the hypertensive pressure. This, combined with a weakened endothilium, sounds like a bad combination to me.
Trev. Tucker