sexual intercourse - possible cause of MS

[DrGeoff]

You know, astral7, I think that you have totally misunderstood the basis for the press story you quoted.
It was not about sexual intercourse, but about the use of oral contraceptives (OCs).

Now OCs are not just used to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, but quite often to regularise a monthly cycle. So if we are really going to get to grips with numbers, we do need to identify target populations, and ages.

Sure, you can take a rough approximation, but the plain fact is that we do not know exactly what the demographics of MS really are.

The US has a population of about 270 million, of which slightly more than half are female - but you tell me how many between the ages of (say) 13 and 50 are regularly using OCs. Now compare that to the incidence of MS - you can just about take a guess on the widely quoted 1,000,000 in the US, but how many of those are in the population of OC users?

The Daily Mail is an English newspaper, so look at the figures there. A population of about 62 million, slightly more females than males, a population of MS sufferers of about 100,000 + (I have heard a guesstimate of about 120K, but even if you use that figure it works out at a lot less than 0.01. It is nearer to 0.0002, so if you take out the number between 13 and 50, it might be more than a handful of people, but it is a very minute percentage.

If you want to get to grips with the figures for the US, you will have to do it by State and even within States (I saw numbers that were very different between Northern and Southern California for example.

But, just remember that the original article was about the use of OCs.
Geoff

[jimmylegs]

ocas which drain nutrients, specifically zinc, which among other things would increase susceptibility to any sort of infection - bacterial, viral, fungal (st or otherwise).

[jerrygallow]

Children and people who have never had sex can get ms. Ms is not contagious. The pill raises copper and changes hormones

[jimmylegs]

a high copper to zinc ratio is trouble in a lot of different illnesses.

[centenarian100]

my x husband's first wife had ms. then i get with him and end up with symptoms they named ms. a hell of a coincidence??? or is he like a "typhoid mary"???

I don't know, but If I were you I would lord it over him forever and exploit his guilt for favors.

[centenarian100]

I think SEX, DRUGS & ROCK & ROLL CAUSE MS.

Haha. Is this a synergistic effect, or are they separate risk factors?

[jackD]

I think SEX, DRUGS & ROCK & ROLL CAUSE MS.

Haha. Is this a synergistic effect, or are they separate risk factors?

Those questions are causing me some real problems.

I am having trouble designing a study to test all that synergistic stuff.

It occurs to me that maybe some folks just do not like Rock & Roll. And then there is the problem with the control arm of the studies. No sex, No drugs for years, and years would be a little difficult. Married folks would also be a problem or maybe a solution.

I need a drink, some sex and a good toke.

I already have MS so I have nothing to lose by having a good time.

jackD

[jerrygallow]

jimmylegs, you mentioned copper to zinc imbalance. I was just reading about that. I'm so confused. I read one site that says copper is high in MS and zinc low. Then I read another that says the opposite. I think I had the symptoms of high copper before diagnosis. When I take copper supplements (2mg), my eyes burn. I remember complaining about burning eyes when I was diagnosed. Nobody seemed to care about it much. I see where they say serum copper is not a good measure of tissue levels.

One website (MD doc) claims that 1/3 of Americans only get half of their copper needs, while another 1/3 gets even less. He claims high fructose corn syrup depletes copper. Furthermore, the high grain diet we have with phytic acid blocks copper absorption. He says teh copper ratio in most multis favors zinc and promotes copper deficiency. Given that copper is a building block to myelin, it makes some sense to say MS is a low copper disease.

But....then there's the other side. I know you are a fan of zinc. What about the studies that show zinc is normal or even high in MS? What do you make of copper vs. molybdenum, which supposedly is low in MS. I can't decide if supplements make me feel better or worse.

[jimmylegs]

all depends what your various levels are in relation to each other. helps to have several tests done at once so you know how to supplement.

also not all supplements are created equal and that is especially true for copper.

i don't worry about people saying copper is high this or low that, i look for studies of copper levels in healthy people. they average around 17 umol/L.

the ideal zinc copper ratio is 1.1. healthy control zinc is mid 18. and mid 18 divided by 17 is a perfect 1.1!

[astral7]

- MS risk given by DNA si very small
- Enviroment where people with MS live isn´t different.
- I don´t think that people with MS live in enviroment with pathogens and healty people not.
- Many of MS people live healty lives. Lot of sports.....
- sunshine, vitamins and etc have influence on MS risk, but very small.

So, it can´t be the cause of this illness.

Researchers must look to patient´s DNA together with spouse´s DNA. And then compare and analyse many DNA variants.

[jimmylegs]

Latitude is significantly associated with the prevalence of multiple sclerosis: a meta-analysis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21478203

a long history of TiMS discussion re athletic nutrient depletion and neurological manifestation:
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/under-25- ... ml#p221356

academic discussion of an excess hygiene link to ms is ongoing:
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=hygi ... +sclerosis

recent thinking re epigenetics and chronic disease

Epigenetics: A New Bridge between Nutrition and Health (2010)
http://advannut.highwire.org/content/1/1/8.short

Nutrition, Epigenetics, and Metabolic Syndrome (2012)
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10 ... .2011.4381

Environmental risk factors in multiple sclerosis.(2008)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18439219
"Epstein-Barr virus, vitamin D status, and smoking are factors that may explain such epidemiological patterns. ... While genetics shapes the overall population MS susceptibility, observed epidemiological patterns strongly suggest a role for the environment in disease initiation and modulation"
(environment includes food habits. susceptibility to infection is linked to poor nutrient status, same with smoking)

[astral7]

But all of these "causes" increases risk of MS no more then 5-10% - according studies.

High prevalence and no latitude gradient of multiple sclerosis in Norway
http://msj.sagepub.com/content/early/20 ... 1.abstract

On Sardinia (Italy) is MS prevalence of 144.4 per 100,000 !
The crude prevalence rate of definite MS cases increased significantly in 23 years from 10.1/100,000 recorded in northeastern Greece in 1984 to 119.61/100,000 on December 31, 2006
http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/122334

If one or two of 1000 have MS, it doesn´t mean that it is the cause. Because there is still 999 or 998 people without MS.

Food can´t be the main cause too. I think that people with MS eat almost same food like others.

EBV only increase risk of MS, but it is not the cause, because most of people have this virus and doesn´t have MS.

MS isn´t heritable. It means, it can´t be in patient´s DNA. Therefore I don´t understand why scientists are trying to find the cause in patient´s DNA.

So, where could be the cause ?

Most of people was diagnosed with MS in age when they had sexual intercourse with spouse.

[DrGeoff]

You do jump about, astral7, so just what is the point you want to make?

You picked up a report that had a link between MS and Oral Contrceptives - then you tried to turn this into a link between MS and sexual intercourse. On the way you make some statements that jimmylegs has shown to be inaccurate, and now you are making some big leaps without any evidence.

MS may not be in our DNA - but this does not show why there is not a genetic predisposition to MS, given certain triggers. Scientists will tend to concentrate on finding the genetic predisposition OR the trigger(s) - but not both at once.

You argue that food cannot be the main cause. Diet changes from country to country, and it tends to change with age. If you can gather enough data on the age of MS onset, and correlate that with diet at the same age or at a few years before. If you take lyndacarol's insulin theory, and link that to the age when the population when most people are eating sugary foods, and link that to the age at MS onset, then you might be on to something worthwhile - as it is I get the idea that you are hunting for a theory to offer.

Geoff

[astral7]

I only want to come with new ideas for scientists.

Another my idea is, that MS could spread by air from spouse´s breath

You know that smokers have increased risk of MS. Current smokers have an increased risk of developing NAbs to IFNβ-1a
Then it is possible to imagine lungs as immune-reactive organ, reacting upon irritation.

Scientists should also examine such crazy but real posibility.

[DrGeoff]

astral7 wrote:

Another my idea is, that MS could spread by air from spouse´s breath

This sounds just like the idea that Jerzy offered under the name of Haptenology.

Any connection - since you both write English with a Slavonic slant?

Geoff