Dirty Medicine

[HappyPoet]

Hi Harry, I remember the real bad, old days when the infamous and much-hated Lyon would try to torment you, and I always did my best to put him in his place. Eventually, though, thanks to the near-forum-wide revolt, the rules were changed so that the moderators could--and did--ban Lyon, and I'm sure you'd agree that life here at TiMS has been much easier and much less stressful for all of us since, yes?

To have a thick skin is helpful when one deals with a "brash" personality, but it shouldn't have to be a requirement in order for a pwMS to participate at TiMS. C and his "brash" personality being here could be why TiMS is so slow these days; after all, who wants to post something with the fear of having C start calling them names?

Don't forget, C proudly proclaimed, "I love it when people get riled up," which is quite an insensitive remark to make here because pwMS and their loved ones know that being "riled up" is not good for many, if not all, pwMS. C's MS-related emotions will likely get out of control again, and he'll likely give another empty apology again.

Forums do not necessarily, automatically have to be vitriolic places just because they're on the Internet--the amount of vitriol will be a function of the forum's policies and how closely the moderators enforce those policies.

[HarryZ]

These people are just trying to give some creditability to the FDA. They must have ties to the FDA or medical association. They are trying to convince people that it is possible to choose the good drugs. Let everyone have the right to choose the good drugs but not to choose what will really work. People are too stupid to make the right choice so the FDA will make it for us. Anyone with half a brain realizes that an agency which approves drugs which kill people and then have to pull them from the market is not creditable. Any agency which allows putting fluoride in the water, mercury in the mouth, GMO's in the food, and inject poisons in the body is a criminal. It is all about the money with these jokers and if you listen to them you will not get better.

As usual Wanna, you continue to make broad, unsubstantiated allegations about anything you don't like. Now you are calling people "stupid" and insulting this board with your ludicrous comments. You better hope someone from the FDA doesn't read that you are calling them "criminal". That could be grounds for liable and some bored lawyer in the FDA might decide to go after you!

And while on the topic, please give us a list of "good" drugs as opposed to "bad" drugs. With your kind of expertise, you should be able to do that in an hour or so providing us with all the data that makes them "good" or "bad"

[HarryZ]

Hi Harry, I remember the real bad, old days when the infamous and much-hated Lyon would try to torment you, and I always did my best to put him in his place. Eventually, though, thanks to the near-forum-wide revolt, the rules were changed so that the moderators could--and did--ban Lyon, and I'm sure you'd agree that life here at TiMS has been much easier and much less stressful for all of us since, yes?

Hi HappyPoet,

Yes, I well remember the days of Lyon. We exchanged a number of private messages while all the crap was going on and the only thing I can say is that he appeared to have some kind of personality problems. Can't say that I miss him though

To have a thick skin is helpful when one deals with a "brash" personality, but it shouldn't have to be a requirement in order for a pwMS to participate at TiMS. C and his "brash" personality being here could be why TiMS is so slow these days; after all, who wants to post something with the fear of having C start calling them names?

I agree! Some people appear to thrive on conflict and must have a very boring life to come on here and cause havoc.

Don't forget, C proudly proclaimed, "I love it when people get riled up," which is quite an insensitive remark

That pretty much sums up what kind of person you are dealing with when they make that kind of comment. It certainly says a lot about him. Fortunately people like him are in the minority on this board.

[newmser]

These people are just trying to give some creditability to the FDA. They must have ties to the FDA or medical association. They are trying to convince people that it is possible to choose the good drugs. Let everyone have the right to choose the good drugs but not to choose what will really work. People are too stupid to make the right choice so the FDA will make it for us. Anyone with half a brain realizes that an agency which approves drugs which kill people and then have to pull them from the market is not creditable. Any agency which allows putting fluoride in the water, mercury in the mouth, GMO's in the food, and inject poisons in the body is a criminal. It is all about the money with these jokers and if you listen to them you will not get better.

As with many conspiracy conspiracists, you make a two-way argument. Are you saying that the FDA should ban mercury, GMO's and fluoride? If so, then why should't it ban unproven cancer treatments.

Surely you could have come up with a better example to bolster your argument than Stanislaw Burzynski and his antineoplastons - talk about a criminal.

[want2bike]

The FDA should be there to make people healthy. The FDA should protect us against bad food and bad drugs. The FDA is doing a lousy job of protecting us. The proof is in all the sick people we have to day. Why do we have so many more sick people if the FDA is doing it's job? There are proven treatments for cancer and other illness but the FDA will not let us have them because a real cure for cancer would harm the business model. I do not need a million dollar study to tell me mercury or fluoride is a poison and if we get too much of it we will get sick. The FDA knows these things are poisons but they still allow it. As for Burzynski's antineoplastons when people have been given up for dead by the medical community and it is the only hope they have why is it so bad for them to try it? Do you think they should just give up and die like the doctor tell them? All the indications say antilneoplastons works but the FDA is packed by members of the drug industry and they don't want an actual cure interfering with their business model. Can't you see a problem with turning on the TV and being blasted by all the good drugs our there. Drugs are not the answer for healing the body. Stop trying to find a magic drug and do what really counts.

[HarryZ]

Why do we have so many more sick people if the FDA is doing it's job?

Does the FDA force a large sector of our population to eat junk food, sit in front of the tv for hours and not exercise on a daily basis? This leads to obesity which is becoming our number one health issue and that is one main reason why people are sicker these days.

There are proven treatments for cancer and other illness but the FDA will not let us have them because a real cure for cancer would harm the business model.

Perhaps you can mention these "proven" treatments and the clinical trials that have been done to scientifically show they work. And I don't mean "aunt Susie ate apricot seeds for a month and her cancer went away."

I do not need a million dollar study to tell me mercury or fluoride is a poison and if we get too much of it we will get sick.

We already know that mercury is not good for you (if ingested) so what's your point here? And I've have drunk water with fluoride in it for over 50 years and am very healthy. My teeth have benefited a great deal as well. If you eat too much sugar or use too much salt, that is bad for your health. So do we ban both those substances?

Do you think they should just give up and die like the doctor tell them? All the indications say antilneoplastons works but the FDA is packed by members of the drug industry and they don't want an actual cure interfering with their business model.

Oh Wanna, give us a break, will you!! "Indications" vs actual scientific proof are very different. If a treatment "works" you better be able to prove beyond a doubt that it does and not because good ole aunt Susie says so.

Can't you see a problem with turning on the TV and being blasted by all the good drugs our there. Drugs are not the answer for healing the body. Stop trying to find a magic drug and do what really counts.

But didn't you say that some drugs are good and should be allowed by the FDA. Oh I forgot, only drugs approved by Wanna should be allowed because Wanna has all the answers!!

[centenarian100]

The FDA should protect us against bad food and bad drugs. The FDA is doing a lousy job of protecting us. The proof is in all the sick people we have to day.

This handy graph of US life expectancy suggests that people are living longer despite worsening lifestyles over the last century:

http://www.nih.gov/about/impact/life_ex ... _graph.htm

despite increasing obesity for instance:



certainly, this isn't the result of people eating healthier food or better non-traditional medical care.

Is your expectation zero illness?

[want2bike]

If you are such a healthy person why are you here pushing the use of drugs? I heard your story before. Been drinking fluoride in the water for 50 years and still healthy. You hear about the old man who smoked cigarettes for 50 years and was still healthy. Guess cigarettes and fluoride are a good thing right? Never made you or the old man sick so by that logic they are healthy things to do. This is FDA logic. Read the back of your toothpaste and see what you are suppose to do if you swallow the paste. There will never be a million dollar study showing the harm fluoride has done to our people and if there were the FDA would refuse to believe it. Hitler knew the value of fluoride in the water and that is why he gave it to the Jewish people.

We can't ignore the numbers created by the FDA showing we are living longer. I am reminded of the old saying, "Figures never lie but liars figure". Yes, more people with autism and other diseases riding around in wheelchairs, hooked up to machines, and taking an assortment of different drugs to keep them alive. As long as they have good insurance or money the AMA will keep them breathing. To me being alive is more than just breathing. Some people may be happy with that story but it is important to understand there is another way. You get the information and take control of your own health you can live again. We should have freedom of choice in our country not the FDA telling us they are the only way.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/artic ... cify-jews/

http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/ ... 0817225011

[HarryZ]

If you are such a healthy person why are you here pushing the use of drugs?

Nothing like trying to put words into my mouth, Wanna. I've never pushed the use of drugs, especially when it comes to treating MS. You obviously aren't familiar with my many posts over the years here. I'm only replying to many of your ludicrous statements when it comes to your take on the FDA and comments on your take on drugs. I believe several other readers have taken you to task on your comments as well.

I heard your story before. Been drinking fluoride in the water for 50 years and still healthy. You hear about the old man who smoked cigarettes for 50 years and was still healthy. Guess cigarettes and fluoride are a good thing right?

Anyone who compares the use of fluoride with smoking cigarettes appears to have some real issues!!

Hitler knew the value of fluoride in the water and that is why he gave it to the Jewish people.

Kind of warped thinking to say the least.

We have information and take control of your own health you can live again. We should have freedom of choice in our country not the FDA telling us they are the only way.

So what's your problem if you have freedom of choice? You've been harping for days now that the FDA controls us and then say we have a choice not to follow their direction! You tell us all drugs are dangerous, then say some are and some aren't and we should take the "good" ones. So who tells us what is safe and what isn't? You, Wanna?!! Changing your views depending on which way the wind is blowing.

[HappyPoet]

NHE, thanks for starting this thread. Dirty medicine, indeed. Being an MS patient, I learned early on that the FDA is corrupt and in cahoots with big pharma, but I had no idea that the corruption is so widespread.

Here are some interesting links about how the FDA is a cesspool filled with liars, cheats, and criminals, and these are just a handful of the thousands and thousands of articles available from reputable sources. Those defending the FDA are fighting a losing battle:

Criticism of the FDA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... nistration

Risky Drugs: Why The FDA Cannot Be Trusted
http://www.ethics.harvard.edu/lab/blog/312-risky-drugs

FDA Let Drugs Approved on Fraudulent Research Stay on the Market
http://www.propublica.org/article/fda-l ... the-market

Within You, Without You: FDA's Problems Spell Trouble for Public Health
http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/drose ... as_pr.html

Gaps, Tensions, and Conflicts in the FDA Approval Process: Implications for Clinical Practice
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/474285_7

Top FDA Officials Compromised by Conflicts of Interest
http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/629/101/

[Kronk]

I learned early on that the FDA is corrupt and in cahoots with big pharma.

So what is your solution? Open the flood gates and let every backyard chemist sell medicine? Leave it to the ever so informed American Public to determine what is good and bad? You think there is heavy marketing now…

The FDA has flaws, show me a regulatory body that doesn’t. The fact is people are better off WITH it than WITHOUT it. In Canada we have our own version of the FDA. Has strict guidelines that must be met prior to a drug being made available. Many complaints are submitted by people who want the latest wonder drug or wonder treatment but the fact is until is it PROVEN to help with the condition intended it will not be approved. That is the purpose of a regulator. If you don’t like it submit a complaint, there is your freedom. Could you do that in Hitler’s Germany Wanna?

I dont think its a leap to say no one here is saying the FDA is perfect, and no one here is defending it. I think the argument is that it serves a purpose.

the FDA is a cesspool filled with liars, cheats, and criminals,

That’s a very dangerous and Irresponsible allegation… the majority of people who work for the FDA are 9 to 5 employees who have families that takes the drugs that are approved by there organization… Would you approve drugs that would poison your children? What a joke...

So I ask again, offer an alternative solution or get off your soapbox.

[want2bike]

The alternative solution is "Let your food be your medicine and your medicine be your food". This solution was given to us by Hippocrates the father of western medicine. If you choose to believe the phony science put out by the drug companies, quackwatch and FDA you will be sick the rest of your life. The FDA is packed with drug company executives. They are there to push the drugs because that is their business model. It is one of the leading causes of death in our country but you still choose to believe them. There is no magic drug. Healing comes with your choice of food not from toxic chemicals. That is how our bodies were created and nothing has changed. Better to use natural methods. If there is a drug which will help the FDA is not going to let your have it. Their business model is to support the drug companies and that will not be done if everyone is healthy.

http://www.healingdaily.com/Doctors-Are ... the-US.htm

http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/ ... panies.htm

[HarryZ]

The alternative solution is "Let your food be your medicine and your medicine be your food".

So what is preventing you from following this policy? Nothing, Wanna...nothing! You have the freedom to follow whatever you think is right for you. But like I said from the beginning, don't paint everyone with the same brush and make ludicrous statements that have no basis.

If you choose to believe the phony science put out by the drug companies, quackwatch and FDA you will be sick the rest of your life.

I'm certainly not a fan of the FDA and have said so in the past but making a statement like that is again another example of one of your dumb comments.

There is no magic drug. Healing comes with your choice of food not from toxic chemicals. That is how our bodies were created and nothing has changed. Better to use natural methods. If there is a drug which will help the FDA is not going to let your have it. Their business model is to support the drug companies and that will not be done if everyone is healthy.

But Wanna, you said in a previous comment that some drugs are good so use them!!! But here you state that that drugs are toxic chemicals. So what is it? Which way is the wind blowing today, Wanna?

[HappyPoet]

Kronk, I think strong laws that would help stop the 'revolving door' are needed. I should also say I'm biased against the FDA because of the Novantrone I took that stopped my menstrual cycle (think about this for a minute) and gave me a lifetime 10% chance of cancer--it was not an 'informed decision' because I was not told of these adverse side effects. The Novantrone did nothing to help my MS.

As for the honest people who work for the FDA, they've chosen to work for an organization that has a lot of bad press because of a lot of unethical and immoral co-workers, so they should expect comments such as mine--if their skin isn't thick enough, they might want to find another employer.

[want2bike]

I was not addressing my last two post to you Mr. HarryZ but you appear to want to trash what I have said. The only drugs the FDA allows are those manufactured by the big drug companies. I posted the articles showing these drugs are usually not necessary and often kill people. Healing the body is not done with drugs. I posted an article showing that antineoplastons had a good success rate but the FDA will not allow people with no hope to use it. There are many good cancer treatments but you can't get them in this country. You have to go to a foreign country to get the treatment. You seem to want to argue about what constitutes a good drug. As I told you once before it is up to you to separate the good drugs from the bad. The only thing I can tell you is anything approved by the FDA should be avoided. Their record shows they are not trustworthy. It is all about the money with these jokers. With all the illness they are responsible for I do not know how they can look themselves in the mirror in the morning. Maybe they do not have mirrors in the million dollar homes.