I don't have MS!?!?

[ladyletterman]

I actually am not worried I have MS. The symptoms I have are so similar to MS, I was hoping to get input on what else it could be. I am 31, female, mother of 3, and pretty healthy. I do have an under active thyroid that has been fine w/ meds. For years, I have been have had many spells of fatigue. Some last days, while some last weeks. I will have other symptoms with the fatigue spells, but each spell is different. Sometimes, bad leg pain or dizziness, or even all over muscle pain like the flu. I have had my thyroid checked more than I'd like to admit. It always comes back fine. Skip to now: I feel awesome, but am terrified of having another spell. My last one was HORRIBLE! November and December, it lasted 6 or 7 weeks. My worst one ever! It started with headaches and fatigue. Quickly progressed severe blurred vision, frequent urination, and I wasn't dizzy, but a constant feeling of.... that feeling when you are swinging, then coming down. I'm sorry, I hope that makes sense. My arms also felt like they kept trying to fall asleep. I was so uncomfortable, that I was constantly hanging my head and rubbing it even though it didn't actually hurt. I went to the Doc and couldn't even think straight to get my sentences out. I think it was b/c I was just so uncomfortable, I couldn't think. Doc was worried, did blood work, CT, MRI on brain and they all came back normal. My B12 was normal as well. Anyways, these spells have been coming and going for years, but I am just recently recognizing the pattern. I live in fear of the next spell. I have 3 boys that I need to keep up with, and this last spell was so bad, I was on the couch for weeks. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[jimmylegs]

hi and welcome one investigation that you can do on your own would be to check your diet to see if you are getting the recommended daily amounts for essential vitamins and minerals. mainstream docs don't get much nutrition education and are not likely to refer patients to nutrition specialists.

nutrients of concern are by NO MEANS limited to vit b12 - if you wanted to you could assess some others that when low normal are correlated with ms and other chronic illnesses. as with b12, for many nutrients of concern for chronic illnesses like ms, if 'normal' results are LOW normal, you want to be careful.

i would suspect that in addition to your symptoms, the thyroid issues point up something going on that could potentially benefit from some nutritional attention. can't hurt to check that your nutritional needs are being met, especially having made withdrawals from your pre-motherhood stockpile of nutritional resources, to the tune of three additional human beings...

at a minimum, it's useful preventive health self-education that you can look after pretty independently, while pursuing other lines of investigation via mainstream health care

[ladyletterman]

I am not quick replying, but I appreciate you responding. Since I posted, I have had B12 tests ran. It came back 683. I started taking liquid under tongue supplement while waiting for results and I must say, I FEEL AMAZING! My energy levels are out the roof! Well, I felt amazing til Wed. I started getting dizzy. REALLY dizzy. I am ok until I move, them the whole room starts spinning. I had severe dizziness a couple months ago, but it was different. I think it may just be vertigo, but I wanted to see if you knew if it could be related to B12 in any way. I have been reading up on it, but am not finding what I am looking for. I guess what I am asking.... could increasing my B12 alone, and not other vitamins, cause issues?
Thanks

[jimmylegs]

hi

short answer to your question, it is possible. long answer: nutrients don't occur in high dose isolation in food. it's well known that nutrient ratios are as important as levels. for example, zinc and iron intakes aren't a problem in food, but if you take zinc as a supplement, unless you do it carefully, you can push down levels of iron, copper and calcium, at least. similarly, taking lots of iron can push down zinc, and so on. i can't think of any particular nutrient off the top of my head that is known to be depressed by high inputs of b12, but when you have symptoms, it's more likely to be a cluster of nutrients playing into the scenario than just one. for example, and i'm just spitballing here, if your b12 levels are good but you're not using it properly due to an unevaluated cofactor, that could explain why taking more b12 made you feel briefly better. at the same time, you may have accelerated your body's use of the same cofactor, resulting in an eventual loss of effect because you are low in something else.

when i was deficient in b12, and started to get really bad symptoms, i started taking b12 frantically and it didn't help at all. later i followed a protocol that was much more comprehensive with lots of vitamins and minerals, and it helped so much, so fast, it was the most impressive effect i have ever had since getting diagnosed.

[NHE]

I am not quick replying, but I appreciate you responding. Since I posted, I have had B12 tests ran. It came back 683. I started taking liquid under tongue supplement while waiting for results and I must say, I FEEL AMAZING! My energy levels are out the roof! Well, I felt amazing til Wed. I started getting dizzy. REALLY dizzy. I am ok until I move, them the whole room starts spinning. I had severe dizziness a couple months ago, but it was different. I think it may just be vertigo, but I wanted to see if you knew if it could be related to B12 in any way. I have been reading up on it, but am not finding what I am looking for. I guess what I am asking.... could increasing my B12 alone, and not other vitamins, cause issues?

Vitamin B12 and folate (aka methylfolate) work together. They are like the two wheels of a bicycle in that you're not going to get very far with only one or the other. To that end, I recommend watching this presentation by Dr. Benjamin Lynch as an introduction to the methylation cycles involving folate and vitamin B12.

[jimmylegs]

a quick read on interactions of note:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... teractions
"In particular, the relationship between folic acid, vitamin B6, and vitamin B12 is very close. A deficiency in any one of the three can impair the activity of the others. Most alarmingly, when people use high dose supplements of folic acid, it can be harder to spot vitamin B12 deficiency, leading to more serious symptoms. As described earlier in this article, controversy has also arisen over the role of folate fortification of foods, which has some researchers recommending simultaneous fortification of both folate and B12 whenever fortification with either nutrient is being considered.
Some older sources report that vitamin C can damage or impair absorption of vitamin B12. Further research discounted this hypothesis, so you can probably disregard this if you see it."

normally you'll read that high dose b12 won't cause any problems, but i have run into people who experience insomnia if they megadose at the wrong time of day. the literature on megadose b12 mentions acne-like skin eruptions, but i've never had that happen to me.

in the past, when taking b-complex with 1000ug (1mg) of folic acid (vs the more usual 400ug) i've had my serum levels skyrocket and noticed a highly irritating, unscratchable 'phantom itch'. at the time, i was early in my learning curve about nutrient interactions. later, after dealing with a number of nutritional issues, i realized one day that i had been taking a b-complex with 1mg of folic acid again, but without any side effects. so, if you decide to add folic acid to your regimen and get an annoying itch, it might be a clue that there's more going on than two b-vits!

[ladyletterman]

I just wanted to give an update.... My last update. In case anyone else runs across this and feels that they have similar symptoms. The recent dizziness was caused by an abscessed tooth. Still taking B12 liquid under tongue. I have just continued to improve. I believe that my thyroid has began to heal as well. I have spend that past few years of my life suffering. I had severe fatigue spells, headaches, muscle pain, blurred vision, dizziness, and many, many other annoying symptoms. I am truly sorry to anyone that has to suffer with MS! For me, it was merely B12. I am so happy that I came across this site.