AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by Amir » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:29 pm

CureOrBust wrote:1. We are on an MS board.
I have had many patients from this 'MS' board/forum. They all had a diagnosis of 'MS' This proved not to be the case.
I am struggling to find a true 'MS' patient! When I do find one you shall be the first to know.
CureOrBust wrote:2. I have the symptoms (and a corresponding diagnosis) of MS
You are very convinced of this illness and I have no intention of dissuading you otherwise. You must keep seeing the neurologist. I sincerely hope you recover too.
CureOrBust wrote:3. One or even a few hundred people having MS Symptom revilement does not show up as even a blip on the millions suffering from MS. For Amir to be implying "MS Does not exist" (please do not make me go through hundreds of historic posts)
Surely I should have seen at least ONE 'MS' patient by now. What is going on? Please help send just one my way.
CureOrBust wrote:4. Flying multiple times to the other side of the planet for an unproven treatment is also not an option, and hence my question on the "hundreds' of other specialists. NB we are on an MS board so a statement such as "now working along similar lines" implies its about MS (symptoms or disease) and also the "now" implies a change over what was happening before.
'Unproven' to you but not to the many who have done very well here by giving up the 'MS' dogma they had previously subscribed into. Regretfully my evidence is anecdotal. I do not have the funds to do 'scientific studies' that you are so enamoured with.
Here is what some very prominent people have to say about the state of present day medicine and it's many scams:

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.” – Dr. Marcia Angell, a physician and longtime editor-in-chief of the New England Medical Journal (NEMJ) "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964337/"

“The case against science is straightforward:
Much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.” - [Dr. Richard Horton, the current editor-in-chief of the Lancet – considered to be one of the most well respected peer-reviewed medical journals in the world. http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/ ... 0696-1.pdf

Here is a venue for you to pursue in the USA:
http://www.icnr.com/cs/cs_02.html#illus
Dr Gerald Smith who I know personally has trained hundreds of dentists all across the USA and Canada for very many years. I am sure he can help some of you.
YES 'NOW' more and more dentists are realizing that they have a crucial roll to play in the care of not only 'MS' but some 60 different illnesses conventionally hijacked into syndromes and diseases of 'unknown aetiology'
CureOrBust wrote:From memory, wasn't Amir speaking to a solicitor and had a web site set up. It certainly looked as if these were commercial actions.
I do not know where you came across the solicitor bit. The website has been functional for many years.
EJC wrote:So why all the hate? If you don't like what Amir suggests or my progress reports on how Emma progresses, don't read the thread, or read it but keep your hate to yourself, you're just contaminating what is effectively a real time study of treatment on a person that has been given an "MS" label, had an alternative or unusual treatment and the results thereof.
cureorbust wrote:Skepticism is NOT "hate" its simply skepticism. And its further triggered by continuing unsupported claims.
Any unsupported claims are shot at and dubious fraudulent scientific studies are thoroughly believed by many. We have those that earnestly wish to get rid of their illness and we have others that nit pick on every alternative viewpoint. The first type make their way here or inquire how best they can sort themselves out. The second lot I have no answer for.
CureOrBust wrote:My question is simple and still stands. It is not adverted with emotional claims and wording.Do you have a list / details of these "hundreds" of TMJ specialists?
Now, if you actually simply look at my unemotional post, I am simply asking for where I too could receive the same benefits that your wife received, please do not make it into anything emotional and personal. Remember, I am suffering here from a disease I wish to irradiate ANY way possible.
I hope the above link helps you. The constraints laid by the medico/dental/pharma triad does not allow many dentists to make any claims. So if no one has come up as blatantly as I have it is because they are circumspect. The results should speak for themselves.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by CureOrBust » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:18 am

Amir wrote:I have had many patients from this 'MS' board/forum. They all had a diagnosis of 'MS' This proved not to be the case.
I am struggling to find a true 'MS' patient! When I do find one you shall be the first to know.
...
Surely I should have seen at least ONE 'MS' patient by now. What is going on? Please help send just one my way.
If someone is not seeing results by your treatment, they will simply not return, and therefore will be out of your view. I know this has been the case for my own Atlas, CCSVI etc etc treatments I have tried. As far as they know, I was not an MS patient.
Amir wrote:You are very convinced of this illness and I have no intention of dissuading you otherwise. You must keep seeing the neurologist. I sincerely hope you recover too.
I do not see a Neurologist specifically. We all know they have no cure/satisfactory treatments. I am however currently on Gylenya.
Amir wrote:'Unproven' to you but not to the many who have done very well here by giving up the 'MS' dogma they had previously subscribed into. Regretfully my evidence is anecdotal. I do not have the funds to do 'scientific studies' that you are so enamoured with.
It's not just me, its the majority of the educated world. Escpecially the medical profession.

Providing links to dispute scientific methods is nonsense considering there are many more to justify/support it.
Amir wrote:Here is a venue for you to pursue in the USA:
http://www.icnr.com/cs/cs_02.html#illus
Dr Gerald Smith who I know personally has trained hundreds of dentists all across the USA and Canada for very many years. I am sure he can help some of you.
YES 'NOW' more and more dentists are realizing that they have a crucial roll to play in the care of not only 'MS' but some 60 different illnesses conventionally hijacked into syndromes and diseases of 'unknown aetiology'
Thats ONE SINGLE PERSON, not "hundreds". He may of trained "hundreds" but that does not mean they are performing similar treatments.
Amir wrote:I do not know where you came across the solicitor bit. The website has been functional for many years.
So, you have a copyrighted graphing system, and you did not see a solicitor at all?
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... ph#p199278
I actually remember more, but many post have been edited since.

As for your web site being up for many years, I never said it was a recent thing, I have been on this web site for over 10 years.
Amir wrote:I hope the above link helps you. The constraints laid by the medico/dental/pharma triad does not allow many dentists to make any claims. So if no one has come up as blatantly as I have it is because they are circumspect. The results should speak for themselves.
So, in summary, you say there are hundreds, when probed, you provide one.

PLEASE provide a few in Sydney or at least Australia and I know I will see them and also can think of a few others on this web site who will do the same.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by Amir » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:06 am

CureOrBust wrote:If someone is not seeing results by your treatment, they will simply not return, and therefore will be out of your view. I know this has been the case for my own Atlas, CCSVI etc etc treatments I have tried. As far as they know, I was not an MS patient.
Gladly I have only 5% patients who do not continue. The Atlas treatment is unnecessary, as per my latest findings, 95% of the time. If you did not benefit I am not surprised. A dental appliance usually corrects the Atlas but not vice versa.
CCSVI consistently produces a far higher success rate than any DMT's. It does not work for some often because of the serious TMJ dysfunction or if they have incurred serious damage to their hips and cranial sinuses because of steroid use. I think if the treatment followed TMJ correction it would have a far higher rate of success.
CureOrBust wrote:I do not see a Neurologist specifically. We all know they have no cure/satisfactory treatments. I am however currently on Gylenya.
Good luck with Gilenya. I hope it cures you.
Amir wrote:'Unproven' to you but not to the many who have done very well here by giving up the 'MS' dogma they had previously subscribed into. Regretfully my evidence is anecdotal. I do not have the funds to do 'scientific studies' that you are so enamoured with.
CureOrBust wrote:It's not just me, its the majority of the educated world. Escpecially the medical profession.
Providing links to dispute scientific methods is nonsense considering there are many more to justify/support it.
Here is what the most eminent MEDICAL authority Professor Ebers has to say about your proclamation of "justify/support" 'MS' studies:
Prof. George Ebers: MD Professor of Neurology Chair of Clinical Neurology University of Oxford
Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:57 pm
"Clinical trials of multiple sclerosis have been uniform in utilizing invalidated outcome measures. This has occurred to a degree for which it is difficult to find parallels in medicine in general. We have recently evaluated the outcomes which have been used for evaluating past trials leading to drug approval and current trials. It is not a pretty sight.
It is quite clear from natural history studies that relapses have very little if anything to do with long term outcome.
Similarly, MRI measures have been thoroughly evaluated within large datasets and found to be similarly non-predictive for meaningful outcomes.
The measures of disability used in trials certainly don’t measure unremitting disability as investigators and their industry supporters have claimed.
The widespread embracing of dubious and poorly validated outcomes by some ‘MS’ investigators, often in contexts where there are egregious conflicts of interest, threaten academic credibility not to mention long term professional autonomy."
Amir wrote:Here is a venue for you to pursue in the USA:
http://www.icnr.com/cs/cs_02.html#illus
Dr Gerald Smith who I know personally has trained hundreds of dentists all across the USA and Canada for very many years. I am sure he can help some of you.
YES 'NOW' more and more dentists are realizing that they have a crucial roll to play in the care of not only 'MS' but some 60 different illnesses conventionally hijacked into syndromes and diseases of 'unknown aetiology'
CureOrBust wrote:Thats ONE SINGLE PERSON, not "hundreds". He may of trained "hundreds" but that does not mean they are performing similar treatments.
I do not know what language you understand. I provided you with an authority in the USA it is for you to look further, This ONE person represents many. Gerald Smith has been doing it far longer than me and has trained dentists throughout the USA and Canada.
Amir wrote:I do not know where you came across the solicitor bit. The website has been functional for many years.
CureOrBust wrote:So, you have a copyrighted graphing system, and you did not see a solicitor at all?
A closer look at the graphs (which still need refinement) will show you that patients presenting with TMJ dysfunction have almost identical symptoms to those presenting with 'MS'. There is no co-morbidity. It is simply TMJ dysfunction as extensive experience confirms.
I have never seen a solicitor in relation to my work. If you think I have, please provide evidence. It is disingenuous on your part to keep putting doubt in patients minds by quoting irrelevant nonsense. Patients want help and not get into a slanging match. I shall no longer reply to any of your postings. You are consistently a nuisance.
CureOrBust wrote: As for your web site being up for many years, I never said it was a recent thing, I have been on this web site for over 10 years.
My website is fairly recent - not 10 years old.
Amir wrote:I hope the above link helps you. The constraints laid by the medico/dental/pharma triad does not allow many dentists to make any claims. So if no one has come up as blatantly as I have it is because they are circumspect. The results should speak for themselves.
CureOrBust wrote:So, in summary, you say there are hundreds, when probed, you provide one.
ONE WITH A LINK TO MANY. IT IS TMJ DYSFUNCTION - NOT MS!
CureOrBust wrote:PLEASE provide a few in Sydney or at least Australia and I know I will see them and also can think of a few others on this web site who will do the same.
AGAIN, My one to many link in Australia - my friend, the great and the most able teacher of the subject of body symmetry in the world - Dr Robert Walker. You can find his website and get a referral to a local person near you. They can deal with the cause of the symptoms. They do not need to claim a cure for 'MS'. For us and many of my former 'MS' patients, it was found not be present - in spite of previous such label.
Last edited by Amir on Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by EJC » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:09 am

CureOrBust wrote: 1. We are on an MS board
2. I have the symptoms (and a corresponding diagnosis) of MS
3. One or even a few hundred people having MS Symptom revilement does not show up as even a blip on the millions suffering from MS. For Amir to be implying "MS Does not exist" (please do not make me go through hundreds of historic posts)
I think fundamentally this is where you and I differ and why we seem to be arriving at what appear to be confrontations.

Up until about 5 years I believed what I was being told by Emma's Neurologist, after all he's a Neurologist how could I possibly question what he says?

Emma was diagnosed with MS 17 years ago. 5 years ago by asking pertinent questions I discovered that the very people treating Emma and prescribing drugs to her actually had no idea what MS is or why it happens. On top of this they couldn't even explain how the drugs they were prescribing would work and what effect they would have on Emma. They referred to "brain lesions" then openly admitted they had no known connection with any disability whatsoever and didn't really understand why they were they, they were an "indicator".

Emma was given a label of "MS" because medicine didn't know what else to do for her, in the UK at least this means she can be spat out of the other end of the system with little or no real support. That's left to charitable organisations.

So we ended up where we are now, quite by accident as it happens, having Emma's "MS" substantially relieved by TMJ treatment.

With the benefit of hindsight it appears the diagnosis Emma had of MS 17 years ago is wrong, completely and absolutely wrong. So wrong in fact it makes you consider "what is MS" at all. In fact, does it even exist or is simply a pigeon hole into which hundreds and thousands of unfortunate people are put because modern drugs based medicine can't solve the problem and expalin what it is or how to deal with it.

Unless there is conscious mental shift in the way people think about MS then nothing will be done to actually find why it occurs, that's where the resources should be focused.

Is what Amir suggest contentious? Of course it is, how many medical professionals do you know have the self belief or character to stick their head above the parapet and make a statement of this magnitude? It's this attitude that drives research forward, it's thinking different that makes us look at alternative treatments and theories. Of course it's going to upset people, change always upsets people.

Does MS exist? Well huge groups of symptoms exist that are given this label, it's up to us to find out how to stop it in any way possible as all it appears drug companies and research is doing is trying to find ways of treating symptoms as opposed to finding the cause.

What it ultimately comes out to is this, get your teeth/jaw checked by someone local to you that understands these things. What's the downside? It could possibly change your life.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by CureOrBust » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:16 am

Amir wrote:Last edited by Amir on Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Please post corrections quoting yourself as needed. Simply changing your post makes it hard to follow what discussion has actually happened, and may invalidate a later post. And it doesn't always make you appear totally forthright.

I am not re-reading your posts either!

I am also taking the fact you did NOT supply anywhere near 100 (let alone "hundreds") of practitioners as an admission you were not exactly "accurate" :-x

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by CureOrBust » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:46 am

This thread on another forum was interesting to read.
https://community.mssociety.org.uk/foru ... aluation-s

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by Amir » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:36 am

CureOrBust wrote:
Amir wrote:Last edited by Amir on Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Please post corrections quoting yourself as needed. Simply changing your post makes it hard to follow what discussion has actually happened, and may invalidate a later post. And it doesn't always make you appear totally forthright.

I am not re-reading your posts either!

I am also taking the fact you did NOT supply anywhere near 100 (let alone "hundreds") of practitioners as an admission you were not exactly "accurate" :-x
I corrected a few bits of punctuation and the set up as I got the quote marks wrong. This the forum allows me to do.
I made absolutely no major changes.

AGAIN there are not hundreds but thousands of TMJ specialists in the world. They treat the real illness of TMJD. YOU Call it 'MS' which is your prerogative and you are welcome to it.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by EJC » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:39 am

CureOrBust wrote:This thread on another forum was interesting to read.
https://community.mssociety.org.uk/foru ... aluation-s
It's interesting you brought up that thread, I wondered how long it would be before you started trawling on line. As a result of that thread, my account, Amir's account and Jencors account were closed by the MS Society forum, selective posts were removed and it was made clear that forum does not discuss anything other than current drug based treatments or treatments approved by NICE. Many posts I made were censored or removed and answers made in the thread linked to above were selectively removed edited.

It was made clear by the moderators of the MS society forum anything considered "alternative" treatment for MS was covered by many other forums such as thisms and we were no longer to post there. I kept all the private messages that were sent to this effect plus other threads that were deleted. It makes interesting reading.

Right from the first page, the posters on that forum were accusing Amir and Jen of opening "fake" accounts to make it look as though more people were posting. I was terribly sad.

Whilst all this was occurring I was receiving private messages from other members expressing their displeasure of how the thread or any similar threads (posted by anyone suggesting or asking questions about alternative treatments) instantly descended into a spiral of accusations and outright hatred by the same forum members when anything other than drug related treatments were suggested. To that end the membership dropped and the forum is a shadow of it's former self. Which is a shame for the many that genuinely gained support from it. At their request I've not posted there since.
Last edited by EJC on Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by EJC » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:56 am

This discussion is going round in circles, considering a study of any size has never happened on Amir's theories so far, what would you actually like to see? If a study was going to be put together what would be the format that would stop every minutia be picked to pieces?

With a physical treatment of this nature you can't do blind or double blind as you can with a tablet or drug and how would you create a placebo against which you measure the effects of actual treatment?

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by Amir » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:59 pm

CureOrBust wrote:This thread on another forum was interesting to read.
https://community.mssociety.org.uk/foru ... aluation-s
This is most interesting. Thank you for bringing up these posts.
Readers need to know the workings behind these posts so that they can find out why they continue to be sick and can find no cure in spite of charitable gifts by the people of millions of dollars into the coffers of these "charitable" societies each year. The sooner their Charitable status is confiscated and the operators prosecuted, the sooner we will have some progress in providing real health for 'MS' sufferers.

Dr Mercola had a fantastic and a very apt piece in one of his articles recently describing such posts:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... 1100477216

"The food, chemical, and biotechnology industries have all built up intricate and powerful systems designed to manipulate public and scientific opinion using false front organizations and industry shills posing as independent experts.

The mission is to mislead people — including lazy reporters — about issues that threaten the corporate bottom line.

So-called techniques are frequently used to discredit the opposition and create the false appearance of scientific consensus on a particular issue.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... sment.aspx

Astroturfing refers to the effort on the part of special interests to surreptitiously sway public opinion by making it appear as though there's a grassroots effort for or against a particular agenda, when in reality such a groundswell of public opinion might not exist.

One hallmark of astroturfing is attacking those who question the status quo, and using derogatory terms such as "crank," "crack," "nutty," "pseudo-science," and "conspiracy theorist" to describe them and their argument.

These shills also inject themselves into social media discussions, pretending to be "regular people," when in fact they have a very clearly defined agenda to steer the conversation"

This is an interesting developing story with a must watch video and exposes the workings of these "charitable" societies even better:
You can watch the video here:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/FVm5YBdwVIg

MS survivor pushing for major change at national charity in Canada
“This is a society that was created for people with MS; to defend us; to represent us; and to find us a cure. And given that only 16 per cent of their revenues are spent on researching a cure for MS, I question who the society is truly for."</div>

Some comments by readers and 'MS' sufferers posted on the website link below:


"Yes other charities work the same way but, how many are willing to point out the facts and go public? Thank you Matt for speaking out for 2.5 million of us who have this awful label of MS. Living off of us is disgusting. The MS Society of Canada have had over 67 years and they have no idea still what causes what they call MS Yet, they flog poisonous drugs just to keep us as customers. They do not want to end MS they want to live off of us. Period.".

"We need more people speaking out against these "charities", charities for health purposes that are funded or supported by big pharma need to be called out for what they really are, and that is a bunch of CEO's getting rich on the backs of sick people. Big pharma is taking over and literally killing people. When MS drugs cost thousand of dollars a month and some HIV drugs are simply unattainable for the people that need them, not to mention Cancer.<strong> It makes you wonder if people are manufacturing the diseases just to get people on the meds..."

Source:http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-new ... al-charity

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by CureOrBust » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:24 pm

On the first page of this thread.
Amir wrote:
EJC wrote:
That's the intersting bit, something that should be considered before undertaking any upper cervical adjustment. Why is it not straight to start with?
I will share an interesting story with you which I found on the internet:

"The myth of creation related by Sitchin says: "Soon after our solar system began to form, a planet thrust from another solar system passed near ours, was attracted inward, collided with a planet called Tiamat, broke her up to create Earth and the asteroid belt, and itself was captured into a great orbit around our sun to become the planet Nibiru. It was so 'Earthlike' that the Seed of Life, begun there, was transferred to Earth during the collision.

"Eons passed as life evolved on both Earth and Nibiru. In time the Anunnaki faced the prospect of extinction as they discovered Niburu was slowly losing its air supply; the only solution was through an elaborate process involving the dispersal of great quantities of gold into their failing atmosphere. When Nibiruian technology evolved sufficiently to allow space travel, the Anunnaki came to Earth, where they discovered vast stores of the gold they desperately needed.

"After an extended period of successful mining operations on Earth, the mine workers brought from Niburu rebelled, and the Anunnaki rulers on Earth decided to replace their own laborers with native Earth life. Their initial attempt was unsuccessful, so they resorted to genetic engineering to splice the native Homo erectus genes with the more complex Nibiruian genes. After several attempts, the Anunnaki succeeded in creating a hybrid species ideally suited to their needs — the one we now call Homo sapiens.

"The myth goes on to relate the trials and tribulations that arose as a consequence of interbreeding and uncontrollable population growth. War broke out, and a decision was made to rid the planet of the new species through massive floods. From there, Sitchin's saga parallels many of the Bible stories that he claims are adaptations of earlier Sumerian writings.

"........ The luxated C1 was deliberately engineered into the Homo sapiens coding by the Anunnaki in order to render their native pool of mining slaves more docile, programmable, and controllable. This mechanism has remained in the human genetic makeup ever since, and I suspect it is well known to those who understand how best to exploit such things."

In spite of my personal disagreement with this story I hope this answers your question about why the Atlas is out of alignment!
Really? which part explains the Atlas being misaligned? was it "The luxated C1 was deliberately engineered into the Homo sapiens coding by the Anunnaki"

I also remember when I first heard of Amir I searched the web for further info and came across a similar post to the above on another forum.

I did not go "trawling the web" for this tidbit, I simply was searching for a dentist in Sydney who could possibly provide a treatment along your lines, and could not believe some of the hits I was getting. I also kept on getting hits for "©copyright Dr M Amir and Amident Inc. 1996-2009. This document is protected under International copyrights & US copyright law article 17. ©Cranio-facial Orthopaedics & Orthodontics & ©Cranio-mandibular & Skeletal Symmetry are also trademarks of M Amir & Amident Inc." Which sounds pretty formal for someone who hasn't seen a solicitor.

The other item which I remember I let pass a few years back was the "Palpation of the Lateral Pterygoid muscle" as a diagnostic tool used by Amir. I did a search back then in google scholar to learn more, but most of what I found was along the lines of
Considering the lack of validity and reliability associated with the palpation of the lateral pterygoid area, this diagnostic procedure should be discarded.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11809325

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... ml#p182953
Amir wrote:If you get some professional person who knows about anatomy to palpate your lateral pterygoid muscles you will find they are very painful. Some use TMJ radiography to ascertain that. I find that pretty useless
I also started to notice just how many posts have been edited AFTER they have been responded to.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by Amir » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:56 pm

CureOrBust wrote:

The other item which I remember I let pass a few years back was the "Palpation of the Lateral Pterygoid muscle" as a diagnostic tool used by Amir. I did a search back then in google scholar to learn more, but most of what I found was along the lines of
Considering the lack of validity and reliability associated with the palpation of the lateral pterygoid area, this diagnostic procedure should be discarded.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11809325

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... ml#p182953
Amir wrote:If you get some professional person who knows about anatomy to palpate your lateral pterygoid muscles you will find they are very painful. Some use TMJ radiography to ascertain that. I find that pretty useless
I stand by this.
Quoting some nonsense and incessantly causing trouble is not going to get the patients anywhere.

The palpation of the lateral pterygoid muscle which discerns pain more on one side than the other is a cardinal sign of TMJ dysfunction. I do not care who disagrees with it. This is one test patients can undertake at home and get some indication of the involvement of the jaw joint causing their pathology. A knowledgeable TMJ expert can confirm this observation and together with finding other bodily asymmetries can help heal the patients. Your medical doctor never undertakes such an examination and hence the above quote from some publication is obsolete and irrelevant.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by CureOrBust » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:04 pm

Are you saying you stand by the "engineered into the Homo sapiens coding by the Anunnaki" or the palpitating of the lateral pterygoid muscle? As I see it, either could be the "rubbish" you are referring to.
Amir wrote:I stand by this.
Quoting some nonsense and incessantly causing trouble is not going to get the patients anywhere.

The palpation of the lateral pterygoid muscle which discerns pain more on one side than the other is a cardinal sign of TMJ dysfunction. I do not care who disagrees with it. This is one test patients can undertake at home and get some indication of the involvement of the jaw joint causing their pathology. A knowledgeable TMJ expert can confirm this observation and together with finding other bodily asymmetries can help heal the patients. Your medical doctor never undertakes such an examination and hence the above quote from some publication is obsolete and irrelevant.
I am not quoting a single person, search for yourself on Google scholar, there are numerous publications which refute its validity. And using a techniquie which appears to be called into question by your own field of treatment, may not "get the patients anywhere" either.

http://www.jodjournal.com/article/S0300 ... ract?cc=y=
Abstract
Objective: Palpation of the lower head of the lateral pterygoid muscle is included in many study protocols and examination schemes of the masticatory system. The aim of this investigation was to search the medical/dental literature to find evidence for the validity and reliability of this diagnostic procedure.

Methods:A systematic search was carried out using different electronic databases (Medline Ovid, PubMed, Cochrane Library, Embase, Current Contents Connect, Science Citation Index, Web of Science, Japana Centra Revuo Medicina), supplemented by handsearch in selected journals and by examination of the bibliographies of the identified articles.

Results:Validity: As far as the palpability of the inferior head of the lateral pterygoid muscle is concerned, five publications representing four studies could be identified. According to these investigations, the lateral pterygoid muscle is practically inaccessible for intraoral palpation due to topographical and anatomical reasons. Other anatomical structures, such as the superficial head of the medial pterygoid muscle, may be palpated instead in this region. Reliability: Determination of the palpability of the lateral pterygoid muscle is characterized by poor interexaminer agreement. Studies investigating the presence of pain in response to palpation of the lateral pterygoid area revealed a moderate intra- and interindividual reliability. Because of the tenderness of the lateral pterygoid region even among healthy subjects, positive findings may lead to wrong conclusions with regard to the need of treatment.

Conclusions: Considering the lack of validity and reliability associated with the palpation of the lateral pterygoid area, this diagnostic procedure should be discarded.
http://www.thejpd.org/article/0022-3913 ... 7/abstract
Abstract
Although dysfunction of the lateral pterygoid muscle could contribute to the pain associated with TMJ disorders, it has been demonstrated through the use of dissections and lateral head radiographs that it is not possible to palpate the lateral pterygoid muscle directly by conventional clinical techniques without applying pressure through the overlying superficial head of the medial pterygoid muscle. The possibility of confusing temporal muscle hypersensitivity with that of another muscle in this region is suggested.
http://www.thejpd.org/article/S0022-391 ... 8/abstract
The list just goes on and on.

As for
Amir wrote:incessantly causing trouble
The trouble arises when you state something as fact, that is clearly not. I can see how that may "trouble" you.

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Amir
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by Amir » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:13 am

CureOrBust wrote:
Amir wrote:incessantly causing trouble

The trouble arises when you state something as fact, that is clearly not. I can see how that may "trouble" you.
You can quote a thousand studies discrediting an alternative form of treatment. The fact of the matter is that this protocol helps show where the root of the problem lies. All my recovering patients will confirm this. Your reference and desperate desire to persuade patients otherwise is only making more and more patients to check for this anomaly and get out of the clutches of 'MS'.
Here is a typical inquiry from an 'MS' patient:
"One night while sleeping my teeth met together in a mildly clenching position I experienced tingling in my hands. This repeated a few times in the following days - when my teeth meet together during sleep or for the first time on waking up, I felt a mild tingling in the hands.
- When my TMJ symptoms are bad (as indicated by a dislocated left Jaw & clicking), even mild movements of the lower jaw reproduce either tingling in hands or legs.
Over the next 24-48 hours after the disc reduces (with a click), the association between jaw movements and tingling reduces drastically.
Sometimes, I feel this is too obvious to be true.

- When my TMJ symptoms are bad there seems to be some kind of a "neurological sensitivity" – if I palpate "any trigger point location" in my masticatory muscles, neck muscles or chest muscles, the tingling in hands is reproduced."


This is the clearest indication of TMJ connection to 'MS' type symptoms.

Thank you for bringing it up. It helps the patients a great deal when eminent persons like you raise some contentious issues.

As far as the studies are concerned here is what the chief 'MS' Neurologist in the UK put very succinctly:
"As we have seen there are lies damn lies and statistics. Very few understand statistics properly and with a bit of statistical magic you can make a bland study look interesting."

Most of the 'MS' studies I read surely "look interesting" if not an outright insult to the intelligence of the patients.

Perhaps you have a better answer to help the patients recover. Please let us know. I can imagine the frustrations of being ill but you need not take it out on me and also seriously prevent patients from finding a solution to this ghastly illness which is like telling some patients that they have cancer when they do not.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Post by NHE » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:54 am

Amir wrote:This is the clearest indication of TMJ connection to 'MS' type symptoms.
They are symptoms of numerous conditions, hardly exclusive to MS and hardly worth promoting treatment of such symptoms as a cure for MS as you did below.
Amir wrote:Readers need to know the workings behind these posts so that they can find out why they continue to be sick and can find no cure
NHE

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