Hi Bob
I can relate to your reasoning - no point in debating semantics when there is more important work to be done!
I was very interested to read the link you posted, and must admit that I am shocked that with a lifetime prevalence of getting one of the autoimmune diseases (at least in Denmark) of 5.29%, more has not been done to study these disorders as a group with possible common causes, as one would suspect from the correlation shown (Denmark keeps good stats!).
Are there any researchers currently studying this, to your knowledge?
Thanks fo rthe awesome post!
Is my disability due to my previous hobbies?
AllyB wrote:Are there any researchers currently studying this, to your knowledge?
Despite that my interest has long been the broad spectrum of "autoimmunity", when my wife was diagnosed with MS last year I shifted my focus specifically to MS. I'm out of touch right now and don't know. If it hadn't been for Lynda mentioning Noel's "common thread" article I suppose I wouldn't have otherwise embarked on this little diversion....going through pubmed to see what recent articles Dr Rose had published since I'd last looked.
Although this might seem a bit of cheap promotion of my favorite cause, probably the thing which is currently causing the most stir in the world of general immunology research are the results being seen regarding the effect of viruses, bacteria, protozoa and helminth parasites on the human immune system.
Advertisement over. If I see anything interesting in the world of general immunology, I'll post it.
Bob
Forgive the autobiographical information but:
I developed Graves Disease six years ago, unfortunately it wasn't diagnosed until more than two years had elapsed. The strain on my thyroid had its effect and I am now being treated for Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. I am currently undergoing tests and waiting to find out whether I have M.S.
In the circumstances I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility of a link between M.S. and diseases attacking the thyroid.
Elia
I developed Graves Disease six years ago, unfortunately it wasn't diagnosed until more than two years had elapsed. The strain on my thyroid had its effect and I am now being treated for Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. I am currently undergoing tests and waiting to find out whether I have M.S.
In the circumstances I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility of a link between M.S. and diseases attacking the thyroid.
Elia
You are absolutely right. We have no quarrel. My point is that there is no unique relationship between either hashimoto or graves and MS. You might just as likely have been diagnosed with any of the other "autoimmune" diseases and your blood relatives face not only the increased risk of MS but also a MUCH greater risk of being diagnosed with ANY inflammatory (autoimmune) disease.Elia wrote:In the circumstances I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility of a link between M.S. and diseases attacking the thyroid.
I'm not saying that there isn't a link between MS and autoimmune thyroid disorders, I'm saying that there isn't a unique link. Someone with MS is more likely to also be diagnosed with ANY of the......87? diseases considered "autoimmune".
I'm glad you gave your autobiography. You'd be surprised how many others here have either/or allergies/asthma or other inflammatory diseases in addition to MS and this needs to be brought to attention more often.
Not that it has any bearing, but in addition to my wife being diagnosed last year with MS, my younger sister was diagnosed with Graves in 2000 and my younger brother diagnosed with Crohns in 2002. In my sister's case they purposely induced hashimoto's (rendered her thyroid inactive) with radiation because hashimoto's is treatable.
Bob
Last edited by Lyon on Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lyon, thanks - I appreciate you clarifying the distinction between increased risk and unique relationship.
When it became clear that some of my symptoms weren't attributable to pre-existing dx, and my GP posited MS or SLE as a cause, I started net-trawling looking for links tying them all together. I've found a number of articles, but, you are absolutely right - they focus on concurrance rather than shared etiology.
Elia
When it became clear that some of my symptoms weren't attributable to pre-existing dx, and my GP posited MS or SLE as a cause, I started net-trawling looking for links tying them all together. I've found a number of articles, but, you are absolutely right - they focus on concurrance rather than shared etiology.
Elia
Hi Elia,
I think I recently said this in another post but it can't be repeated too often and is something that should always be forefront in our minds and the minds of researchers.
In our lifetimes, the lifetimes of our parents and our grandparents, asthma, allergies and inflammatory diseases have been a fact of life and it's too easy to assume that these immune dysfunctions have always been a factor in the "human condition". That understandable but incorrect assumption causes us to ignore the most important clues to the cause(s).
It's ESSENTIAL to always keep in mind that these immune dysfunctions were unheard of/rare in our populations a little over 100 years ago (before we were "developed") and continue to be unheard of/rare at this very moment in populations which have yet to "develop".
Very important clues to etiology reside in that situation but the geographic gradient is fading in clarity as increasing amounts of the world's population "develops". When the geographic gradient fades into oblivion, so will those accompanying clues.
Bob
I think I recently said this in another post but it can't be repeated too often and is something that should always be forefront in our minds and the minds of researchers.
In our lifetimes, the lifetimes of our parents and our grandparents, asthma, allergies and inflammatory diseases have been a fact of life and it's too easy to assume that these immune dysfunctions have always been a factor in the "human condition". That understandable but incorrect assumption causes us to ignore the most important clues to the cause(s).
It's ESSENTIAL to always keep in mind that these immune dysfunctions were unheard of/rare in our populations a little over 100 years ago (before we were "developed") and continue to be unheard of/rare at this very moment in populations which have yet to "develop".
Very important clues to etiology reside in that situation but the geographic gradient is fading in clarity as increasing amounts of the world's population "develops". When the geographic gradient fades into oblivion, so will those accompanying clues.
Bob
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TwistedHelix
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I must confess that when I use the term, "autoimmune disease", and indeed when I read it, I apply a very loose and technically inaccurate interpretation. Strictly speaking, an autoimmune disease is one where the immune attack on self tissue is the primary causative factor, and any subsequent event in the body is a reaction to or result of that.
I lean quite heavily towards the idea that autoimmunity may be the second, (or even third or fourth), step in the disease process, with a triggering event before that.
It is my hope that all autoimmune diseases have the same triggering event at their root, and that the only difference between them is the category of tissue which becomes the target for attack. If that proves to be the case and we could interrupt that single triggering event, then all of them could be wiped out at a stroke. Well, it's a nice dream…
By the way, last year I was also diagnosed with Bullous Pemphigoid which is a particularly nasty skin rash also categorised as autoimmune. The medics aren't quite so positive about their diagnosis now because my symptoms don't quite seem to fit, but luckily it seems to be in remission at the moment,
I lean quite heavily towards the idea that autoimmunity may be the second, (or even third or fourth), step in the disease process, with a triggering event before that.
It is my hope that all autoimmune diseases have the same triggering event at their root, and that the only difference between them is the category of tissue which becomes the target for attack. If that proves to be the case and we could interrupt that single triggering event, then all of them could be wiped out at a stroke. Well, it's a nice dream…
By the way, last year I was also diagnosed with Bullous Pemphigoid which is a particularly nasty skin rash also categorised as autoimmune. The medics aren't quite so positive about their diagnosis now because my symptoms don't quite seem to fit, but luckily it seems to be in remission at the moment,
Dom
Dom, sorry to hear about your Bullous Pemphigoid diagnosis - I hope it transpires that your symptoms have a less unpleasant origin.
My rheumatologist has referred me to a dermatologist for skin biopsies to determine the cause of a facial rash (current contenders: Lupus SLE malar rash, Systemic Sclerosis or Rosacea). Frequently occuring blisters and sores in the mouth may be linked or could just be due to Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
Elia
My rheumatologist has referred me to a dermatologist for skin biopsies to determine the cause of a facial rash (current contenders: Lupus SLE malar rash, Systemic Sclerosis or Rosacea). Frequently occuring blisters and sores in the mouth may be linked or could just be due to Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
Elia
Of course time is the final judge but I think you're seeing strong signs of just what you're talking about in the HDC (Revimmune, Campath1h and helminth studies. Girdling a tree at the base is an easier and more effective way of killing it than cutting branches off one at a time. Especially since in this case we don't know what or where all the branches are.TwistedHelix wrote:It is my hope that all autoimmune diseases have the same triggering event at their root, and that the only difference between them is the category of tissue which becomes the target for attack. If that proves to be the case and we could interrupt that single triggering event, then all of them could be wiped out at a stroke. Well, it's a nice dream…
Bob
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TwistedHelix
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Elia,
Skin biopsies are often the only way to be sure: I was quite surprised to find out how difficult rashes are to distinguish, and how many remain a mystery. Mine keeps threatening to come back but luckily a few days' application of Daktacort, (an ointment with weak steroid and antifungal), seems to keep it in check at the moment.
When the rash first appeared it exploded all over my body, and the itching was so utterly intense that I was lucky I'm not able to scratch, because otherwise I think I'd have gone down to the bone. A course of antibiotics and steroids tablets brought it under control.
I hope yours turns out to be simple to treat, because we could all do without any additional problems to deal with,
Skin biopsies are often the only way to be sure: I was quite surprised to find out how difficult rashes are to distinguish, and how many remain a mystery. Mine keeps threatening to come back but luckily a few days' application of Daktacort, (an ointment with weak steroid and antifungal), seems to keep it in check at the moment.
When the rash first appeared it exploded all over my body, and the itching was so utterly intense that I was lucky I'm not able to scratch, because otherwise I think I'd have gone down to the bone. A course of antibiotics and steroids tablets brought it under control.
I hope yours turns out to be simple to treat, because we could all do without any additional problems to deal with,
Dom
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REDHAIRANDTEMPER
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okay so my understanding is all those hobbies might cause ms i wonder if breaking horses and getting ran over by them would count towards that..with the running with the scissors does that also include throwing back and forth to friends to see who could catch them the best?or the seeing who can hold onto the fireworks longer before throwing them so you dont get your hand blown off? i bet thats my doing in i did all those hobbies and added more to them..dang now why didnt i think of that before?of course ya realize it doesnt mean i am going to stop any of them....lol....
chris
chris
waiting for answers
Dom,
That sounds absolutely hellish - like rolling around in stinging nettles. I'm really glad to hear the Daktacort has managed to assuage it at present.
Certainly puts my facial rash into perspective - it's only mildly irritating (and I'm no oil painting at the best of times). I would have declined the referral to the dermatologist had it not been for the slight possibility it might throw some light on an autoimmune dx. Waiting in limbo for a dx one tends to clutch at straws.
Elia
That sounds absolutely hellish - like rolling around in stinging nettles. I'm really glad to hear the Daktacort has managed to assuage it at present.
Certainly puts my facial rash into perspective - it's only mildly irritating (and I'm no oil painting at the best of times). I would have declined the referral to the dermatologist had it not been for the slight possibility it might throw some light on an autoimmune dx. Waiting in limbo for a dx one tends to clutch at straws.
Elia
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REDHAIRANDTEMPER
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lyon,
guess what my mom did catch me doing some of those things and i was in serious serious trouble......of course it didnt help that my dad was the one who got me into the horses and stuff..lol.....now all i do for hobbies is work with horses and i dont do the firecrackers anymore...even thou i wouldnt be able to feel it if it took off my right fingers....i still run with scissors but only when my kids arent around.....lol.......but ya got to keep some of the hobbies only to keep ya young...lol...
chris
guess what my mom did catch me doing some of those things and i was in serious serious trouble......of course it didnt help that my dad was the one who got me into the horses and stuff..lol.....now all i do for hobbies is work with horses and i dont do the firecrackers anymore...even thou i wouldnt be able to feel it if it took off my right fingers....i still run with scissors but only when my kids arent around.....lol.......but ya got to keep some of the hobbies only to keep ya young...lol...
chris
waiting for answers