herbals

[dignan]

I really don't want to rain on your parade, but I saw this a while ago, and since you're taking large quantities of ginkgo, I thought I'd at least mention it...

On the ever-profitable herbal front, you see all sorts of claims made for Gingko biloba extract and cognitive function, and there are a lot of contradictory studies (many of which, unfortunately, aren't worth much). This latest one won't help much - in the intent-to-treat analysis, no effect was seen. When they controlled for how well patients stuck to the treatment, then some correlations emerged between taking the extract and slower rates of memory loss. Unfortunately, a correlation (at the same level of significance) emerged with stroke and associated TIAs. My prediction: the ginkgo biloba sellers will trumpet the first set of statistics, assuming they need recourse to any data at all, and ignore the second one completely.

http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/20 ... _front.php

http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/ab ... art_2/1809

[gibbledygook]

Yes, I read that and some of the trials on Pubmed where absurdly low dosages are used. For instance one of the trials which showed no efficacity in humans used a mere 300mg a day!!! I weigh 60kg. These are herbs. They are plants, not superrefined, expensive pharmaceutical products. I very much doubt that anyone would experience anything from any herb using only 300mg a day. My chinese doctor prescribes herbs in a minimum of a gram a day. One of the easiest ways for modern pharmaceutical companies to dismiss herbs is by using only ineffective amounts of herbs. Their business is to dismiss and prevent the widespread use of herbs and to that end they conduct trials using negligible quantities of herbs. Now I'm not saying that we should all be taking 20grams a day but you have to be trying with more than a gram a day to see an effect. In my opinion!!

For example in this trial they use 300mg a day:

1: J Cardiopulm Rehabil Prev. 2008 Jul-Aug;28(4):258-65. Links
Effect of Ginkgo biloba (EGb 761) on treadmill walking time among adults with peripheral artery disease: a randomized clinical trial.Gardner CD, Taylor-Piliae RE, Kiazand A, Nicholus J, Rigby AJ, Farquhar JW.
Stanford Prevention Research Center, Stanford University Medical School, Stanford, California 94305, USA. cgardner@stanford.edu

PURPOSE: Medical therapies for treatment of peripheral artery disease (PAD) are limited. Ginkgo biloba has been reported to increase maximal and pain-free walking distance among patients with PAD; however, the evidence is inconsistent. The objective of this study was to compare the effects of 300 mg/d of Ginkgo biloba (EGb 761) versus placebo on treadmill walking time and related cardiovascular measures among patients with PAD. METHODS: A double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel design trial with a 4-month duration was used. Participants were 62 adults, aged 70 +/- 8 years (mean +/- SD), with claudication symptoms of PAD. The primary study outcomes were maximal and pain-free walking time on a treadmill. Secondary outcomes included flow-mediated vasodilation, a measure of antioxidant status as assessed by determining antibody levels to epitopes of oxidized low-density lipoprotein, and questionnaires addressing walking impairment and quality of life. RESULTS: Maximal treadmill walking time increased by 20 +/- 80 and 91 +/- 242 seconds in the placebo and the EGb 761 groups, respectively (P = .12). Pain-free walking time increased by 15 +/- 31 and 21 +/- 43 seconds, respectively (P = .28). No significant differences were detected between groups for any of the secondary outcomes. CONCLUSIONS: In older adults with PAD, Ginkgo biloba produced a modest but insignificant increase in maximal treadmill walking time and flow-mediated vasodilation. These data do not support the use of Ginkgo biloba as an effective therapy for PAD, although a longer duration of use should be considered in any future trials.

PMID: 18628657 [PubMed - in process]

[CureOrBust]

I notice the tingling in my feet reduces after exercise.

[gibbledygook]

To my horror I have now received TWICE the incorrect herbs from Herbal Extracts Plus. They have sent me a package of rehmannia which is identical to the package of salvia and nothing like either of the original pills which I ordered from them. The same applies to the package of gingko which I have just received. This is the SECOND time that they have sent the wrong pills. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

As if we didn't have enough problems without worrying about the safety of the herbal manufacturers. I have now reordered some salvia and gingko from manufacturers on iherb. And am looking at the expensive Life Extension gingko.

[gibbledygook]

Excellent - that's a good sign. I'm having great results with gingko biloba now. I am for the first time today taking 7.2g in 1.2g batches and the tingling has disappeared!!

Keep up the good work!

[gibbledygook]

This trial shows results using the to my mind frankly laughably low quantity of 240mg a day. I'm on 4.8g a day! And it's GREAT!

1: Explore (NY). 2006 Jan;2(1):19-24.Links
The effect of Ginkgo biloba on functional measures in multiple sclerosis: a pilot randomized controlled trial.Johnson SK, Diamond BJ, Rausch S, Kaufman M, Shiflett SC, Graves L.
University of North Carolina-Charlotte, Charlotte, NC.

BACKGROUND: Multiple sclerosis (MS) is a chronic demyelinating neurological disease afflicting young and middle-aged adults, resulting in problems with coordination, strength, cognition, affect, and sensation. OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to determine whether a ginkgo extract (EGb 761) improved functional performance in individuals with MS. DESIGN: This study used a double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel group design. The end point was change between baseline (ie, preintervention) and follow-up evaluation following a regimen of four tablets per day at 60 mg per tablet for four weeks. SETTING: The study was conducted in academic and clinical-based settings. PATIENTS/PARTICIPANTS: Twenty-two individuals with MS were randomly assigned to either the treatment or control condition. Groups did not differ with respect to age, IQ, and education. INTERVENTION: Half of the subjects received 240 mg per day of ginkgo special extract (EGb 761), and the other half received placebo. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE: The main outcome measures assessed depression (Center for Epidemiologic Studies of Depression Scale [CES-D]), anxiety (State-Trait Anxiety Inventory [STAI]), fatigue (Modified Fatigue Impact Scale [MFIS]); symptom severity (Symptom Inventory [SI]) and functional performance (Functional Assessment of Multiple Sclerosis [FAMS]). RESULTS: The ginkgo group had significantly more individuals showing improvement on four or more measures with improvements associated with significantly larger effect sizes on measures of fatigue, symptom severity, and functionality. The ginkgo group also exhibited less fatigue at follow-up compared with the placebo group. CONCLUSIONS: This exploratory pilot study showed that no adverse events or side effects were reported and that ginkgo exerted modest beneficial effects on select functional measures (eg, fatigue) among some individuals with MS.

PMID: 16781604 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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spinal repair for rats who get 100mg gingko per kg body weight (if that were me I'd get around 6grams a day):

1: Spinal Cord. 2006 Nov;44(11):662-7. Epub 2006 Jan 17. Links

Erratum in:
Spinal Cord. 2006 Nov;44(11):697. Zuo, H-Z [corrected to Zuo, H-C].
Protective effects of extract of Ginkgo biloba (EGb 761) on nerve cells after spinal cord injury in rats.Ao Q, Sun XH, Wang AJ, Fu PF, Gong K, Zuo HC, Gong YD, Zhang XF.
State Key Laboratory of Biomembrane and Membrane Biotechnology, Department of Biological Sciences and Biotechnology, Tsinghua University, Beijing, China.

STUDY DESIGN: An experimental animal model was used to assess spinal cord injury following lateral hemitransection at thoracic spinal cord level. OBJECTIVE: To determine whether extract of Ginkgo biloba (EGb) could have a neuroprotective effect in spinal cord injury (SCI) in rats. SETTING: Department of Biological Sciences and Biotechnology, Tsinghua University, China. METHODS: A total of 72 adult rats were divided randomly into three groups: the EGb group, normal saline (NS) group, and sham operation group (sham group). After thoracic spinal cord hemitransection was performed at the level of the 9th thoracic vertebra (T9), rats in the EGb group were given 100 mg/kg EGb 761 daily, while rats in the NS group received NS. The rats in the sham group only underwent laminectomy without spinal cord hemitransection. At various time points after surgery, thoracic spinal cords were sampled and sliced for histochemistry, immunohistochemistry of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS), and terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase-mediated dUTP nick-end labeling (TUNEL) of apoptotic cells. RESULTS: Myelin staining showed that the area of cavities was small and the demyelinated zones were limited at and around the injury site of the spinal cord in the EGb group, while the area of cavities was large and the demyelinated zones were serious in the NS group. Nissl staining showed that the ratio of bilateral ventral horn neurons (transection side/uninjured side) in the EGb group was higher than that in the NS group (P<0.05). The apoptotic index and the percentage of iNOS-positive cells were lower in the EGb group than in the NS group. Furthermore, the percentage of iNOS-positive cells positively correlated with the apoptotic index (r( 2)=0.729, P<0.01) after SCI. CONCLUSION: This study demonstrated that EGb 761 could inhibit iNOS expression and have neuroprotective effect by preventing nerve cells from apoptosis after SCI in rats.

PMID: 16415923 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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but disaster it stops one absorbing alcohol as does citrus unshui (hesperidin). AAAAAARGH! Oh no! Well I'll just have to drink more.

1: J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2005 Dec 10;68(23-24):2219-26. Links
Altered oral absorption of alcohol by combined aqueous extracts of four herbal plants in rats.Shin BS, Jun H, Lee DE, Lee KR, Park ES, Yoo SD.
College of Pharmacy, Sungkyunkwan University, Changan-gu, Suwon, Kyonggi-do, Korea.

This study examined the effect of combined aqueous extracts (BHR) of Ginko biloba, Mentha arvensis var. piperascens, Citrus unshiu, and Pueraria lobata var. chinensis on oral absorption of alcohol in rats. The rats were pretreated with BHR, placebo solution identical to BHR without the herbal extract, and isotonic saline. Alcohol was administered orally at 1- and 3-g/kg doses and the absorption profiles were compared. After oral administration of 1-g/kg doses, mean area under the curve (AUC) and C(max) values were significantly reduced in BHR-treated rats (16.1 +/- 10.0 and 0.3 +/- 0.1 mg/ml, respectively) as compared with saline-treated (37.9 +/- 14.4 and 0.7 +/- 0.7 mg/ml, respectively) and placebo solution-treated (63.0 +/- 46.4 and 0.7 +/- 0.4 mg/ml, respectively) rats. Similarly, after administration of 3-g/kg doses, mean AUC and C(max) values in BHR-treated rats (188.1 +/- 119.7 mg(.)min/ml and 1.0 +/- 0.4 mg/ml) were significantly reduced over those in saline-treated rats (571.4 +/- 512.4 mg(.)min/ml and 1.8 +/- 0.9 mg/ml, respectively). The relative oral bioavailability of alcohol calculated as the ratio of AUC(BHR)/AUC(Saline) was 42.5% and 32.9% at 1- and 3-g/kg doses, respectively. The reduced serum alcohol levels as well as the reduced AUC and C(max) after pretreatment with BHR appear to be a result of a reduced systemic absorption not due to an increased metabolic clearance.

PMID: 16326435 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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[CureOrBust]

do you have any idea of how much "EGb 761" is in the standard products we can buy?

[gibbledygook]

Platelet activating factor is upregulated in MS:

1: J Neuroimmunol. 1999 Feb 1;94(1-2):212-21.Links
Platelet activating factor is elevated in cerebral spinal fluid and plasma of patients with relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis.Callea L, Arese M, Orlandini A, Bargnani C, Priori A, Bussolino F.
Department of Neurology, Ospedale Rovato, Brescia, Italy.

Platelet-activating factor (PAF) is a phospholipid mediator of inflammation with a wide range of biological activities, including the alteration of barrier function of endothelium. A biological assay combined with high pressure liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry showed that plasma and cerebral spinal fluid (CSF) PAF levels in 20 patients with relapsing/remitting or secondary progressive multiple sclerosis (MS) studied by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) were significantly higher than in healthy controls (plasma: 3.29+/-4.52 vs. 0.48+/-0.36 ng/ml, p < 0.002; CSF: 4.95+/-6.22 ng/ml vs. 0.01+/-0.04 ng/ml, p < 0.0001). Values were also significantly higher in relapsing/remitting than in secondary progressive (plasma: 5.10+/-4.97 vs. 0.52+/-0.85 ng/ml, p < 0.005; CSF: 8.59+/-6.39 vs. 0.55+/-0.68 ng/ml, p < 0.002). It was also found that both plasma (R2: 0.65) and CSF (R2:0.72) levels were correlated with the MRI number of gadolinium enhancing lesions, which are markers of blood-brain barrier (BBB) injury, whereas their peaks were not correlated with the MRI number of white matter lesions, nor with the expanded disability status score (EDSS) according to Kurtze [Kurtze, J.F., 1983. Rating neurological impairment in multiple sclerosis: an expanded disability scale (EDSS). Neurology 33, 1444-1452]. Both plasma and CSF in patients with relapsing/remitting MS and marked gadolinium enhancement contained the two major molecular species of PAF: 1-0-hexadecyl- (C16:O) and 1-0-octadecyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine (C18:O). The ratio of the two molecular species was different in the two biological fluids, being PAF C18:0 more abundant in CSF and PAF C16:0 in plasma, indicating a different cellular origin of PAF or different enzymatic processing. These findings suggest that PAF is a significant mediator of BBB injury in the early stages of MS, rather than a marker of its progression and severity.

PMID: 10376955 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Gingko inhibits platelet activating factor:

1: J Med Chem. 2003 Feb 13;46(4):601-8. Links
Preparation of 7-substituted ginkgolide derivatives: potent platelet activating factor (PAF) receptor antagonists.Vogensen SB, Strømgaard K, Shindou H, Jaracz S, Suehiro M, Ishii S, Shimizu T, Nakanishi K.
Department of Chemistry, Columbia University, 3000 Broadway, New York, New York 10027, USA.

Ginkgolides are structurally unique constituents of Ginkgo biloba extracts and are known antagonists of the platelet-activating factor (PAF) receptor. Ginkgolide C is 25-fold less potent than ginkgolide B as a PAF receptor antagonist, due to the presence of the 7beta-OH. Recently, we found that 7alpha-fluoro ginkgolide B was equipotent to ginkgolide B underlining the critical importance of the 7-position of ginkgolides for PAF receptor activity. Herein we describe the synthesis of a series of ginkgolide B derivatives with modifications at the 7-position and the pharmacological evaluation of these derivatives as assayed by cloned PAF receptors. In two cases nucleophilic attack on a 7beta-O-triflate ginkgolide B did not lead to the expected products, but gave rise to two unprecedented ginkgolide derivatives, one with a novel rearranged skeleton. Furthermore, standard reduction of 7alpha-azido ginkgolide B did not give the expected primary amine, but instead yielded alkylated amines depending on the solvent employed. Pharmacological testing with cloned PAF receptors showed that ginkgolides with 7alpha-substitutents had increased affinity compared to 7beta-substituents, in particular 7alpha-chloro ginkgolide B, the most potent nonaromatic ginkgolide derivative described to date with a K(i) value of 110 nM.

PMID: 12570381 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

link

1: J Ethnopharmacol. 1996 Mar;50(3):131-9.Links
The neuroprotective properties of the Ginkgo biloba leaf: a review of the possible relationship to platelet-activating factor (PAF).Smith PF, Maclennan K, Darlington CL.
Department of Pharmacology, School of Medical Sciences, University of Otago Medical School, Dunedin, New Zealand.

Ginkgo biloba (Ginkgoaceae) is an ancient Chinese tree which has been cultivated and held sacred for its health-promoting properties. There is substantial experimental evidence to support the view that Ginkgo biloba extracts have neuroprotective properties under conditions such as hypoxia/ischemia, seizure activity and peripheral nerve damage. Research on the biochemical effects of Ginkgo biloba extracts is still at a very early stage. One of the components of Ginkgo biloba, ginkgolide B, is a potent platelet-activating factor (PAF) antagonist. Although the terpene fraction of Ginkgo biloba, which contains the ginkgolides, may contribute to the neuroprotective properties of the Ginkgo biloba leaf, it is also likely that the flavonoid fraction, containing free radical scavengers, is important in this respect. Taken together, the evidence suggests that Ginkgo biloba extracts are worthy of further investigation as potential neuroprotectant agents.

PMID: 8691847 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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1: Phytomedicine. 2005 Jan;12(1-2):10-6.Links
Inhibition of platelet activating factor (PAF)-induced aggregation of human thrombocytes by ginkgolides: considerations on possible bleeding complications after oral intake of Ginkgo biloba extracts.Koch E.
Department of Pharmacology, Dr. Willmar Schwabe GmbH & Co. KG, Pharmaceuticals, Karlsruhe, Germany. egon.koch@schwabe.de

The special Ginkgo biloba leaf extract EGb 761 is marketed for more then two decades. During this time its therapeutic efficacy and favorable safety profile have been proven in numerous clinical trails as well as by postmarketing surveillance in accordance with German drug regulations. During recent years, however, several cases of hemorrhage have been reported to occur in coincidence with the use of Ginkgo products. Although a clear causality between Ginkgo intake and bleeding could not be established, these observations have generally been explained by the platelet-activating factor (PAF)-antagonistic action of ginkgolides, which represent characteristic constituents of Ginkgo extracts. PAF was originally characterized by inducing aggregation and secretion of serotonin and histamine from rabbit platelets. We now confirmed that induction of aggregation of human platelets by PAF requires at least 200 times higher concentration when compared to rabbit cells. Under the chosen experimental conditions, PAF-mediated aggregation of human platelets was half-maximally inhibited by ginkgolide B, A, C and J at concentrations of 2.5, 15.8, 29.8 and 43.5 microg/ml, respectively. These concentrations are generally more than 100 times higher as the peak plasma values measured after oral intake of EGb 761 at recommended doses between 120 and 240 mg. As PAF is a 'weak' platelet activator, which does not appear to be of importance for primary hemostasis, our results rise serious doubts that the PAF antagonistic effect of ginkgolides could be responsible for hemorrhage in patients taking EGb 761.

PMID: 15693702 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

linkl

1: Biol Neonate. 1998 Dec;74(6):439-44. Links
Platelet-activating factor is an important mediator in hypoxic ischemic brain injury in the newborn rat. Flunarizine and Ginkgo biloba extract reduce PAF concentration in the brain.Akisü M, Kültürsay N, Coker I, Hüseyinov A.
Department of Pediatrics, Ege University Medical School, Izmir, Turkey. makisu@med.ege.edu.tr

Hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy is still a very important cause of neonatal mortality and morbidity. Recently, platelet-activating factor (PAF) has been accused of being responsible for the neuronal damage in hypoxic-ischemic brain. We investigated tissue PAF concentrations in hypoxic-ischemic brain injury in immature rats. Endogenous PAF concentration in brain tissue showed a marked increase in hypoxic-ischemic pups (85.6 +/- 15.5 pg/mg protein) when compared to that of control (9.05 +/- 3.1 pg/mg protein). In addition, we examined the effects of flunarizine, a selective calcium channel blocker, and Ginkgo biloba extract (EGb 761) on endogenous PAF concentration in hypoxic-ischemic brain injury. Endogenous PAF concentrations in both flunarizine-pretreated (16.6 +/- 4.8 pg/mg protein) and EGb 761-pretreated (33.5 +/- 8.9 pg/mg protein) pups were significantly lower than the untreated group. These results indicate that PAF is an important mediator in immature rat model of cerebral hypoxic-ischemic injury. The suppressor effect of flunarizine and EGb 761 on PAF production may open new insight into the treatment of hypoxic-ischemic brain injury.

PMID: 9784635 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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gingko also inactivates platelet activating factor changes to leukocytes:

1: Yao Xue Xue Bao. 2003 Feb;38(2):98-102.Links
[Effect of ginkgolide B on platelet-activating factor induced activation of rat polymorphonuclear leukocytes][Article in Chinese]


Nie ZG, Wang WJ.
Institute of Materia Medica, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Peking Union Medical College, Beijing 100050, China.

AIM: To investigate the effect of ginkgolide B on PAF-induced adhesion, chemotaxis and degranulation of rat polymorphonuclear leukocytes (PMNs). METHODS: The adhesion of rat PMNs to rat synovial cells (RSC) was measured with MTT colorimetry. The chemotaxis of PMNs was quantified with Boyden chamber method. The degranulation of rat PMNs was evaluated by determining the activity of released beta-glucuronidase. RESULTS: In comparison with control, ginkgolide B at the concentration of 10 mumol.L-1 significantly inhibited the adhesion of PMNs to RSC by 71.74%. At the final concentration of 1-1,000 nmol.L-1, ginkgolide B dose-dependently inhibited the chemotaxis of PMNs stimulated with 10 nmol.L-1 platelet-activating factor (PAF), the IC50 was 4.84 nmol.L-1. At the final concentration of 0.01-10 mumol.L-1, ginkgolide B decreased the release of beta-glucuronidase in PMNs induced by 1 mumol.L-1 PAF in dose-dependent manner. The IC50 was 3.56 mumol.L-1. CONCLUSION: Ginkgolide B was found to significantly inhibit PAF-induced adhesion, chemotaxis and degranulation in rat polymorphonuclear leukocytes. These effects might be considered a part of the mechanisms underlying the antiinflammatory action of ginkgolide B.

PMID: 12778742 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

link[/quote]

[gibbledygook]

Fraid not, cureo. I'm currently taking 4.8g of gingko from herbalextractsplus but am going to stop using them as I have lost confidence in their pills as the degree of variability in the smell, taste and appearance is way too high.

I also think herbalextractsplus just give the dried herbs rather than a special extract.

[gibbledygook]

Owing to the huge variance in pills which have recently arrived from Herbalextractsplus I have put any further orders from them on hold until I can authenticate what they have already sent me. This has then led me on the hunt for a good supplier of gingko. However I can only find suppliers in tiny doses of 120mg with the same purity as herbalextractsplus of 24% glycosides and 6%terpenes. As I am taking 4.8 to 6grams a day of the herbalextractsplus gingko it is very annoying to find other suppliers only have such low dosages with no attendant increase in purity. Does anyone know of a fantastic herb supplier?

[NHE]

Oregon's Wild Harvest sells one pound bags of dried organic gingko leaf powder. I know very little about the quality of this product and there isn't much data on their web site. Perhaps you could contact them and inquire about its purity analysis. On a side note, I have taken their turmeric extract with bioperin but now I'm back to whole turmeric. In addition, this gingko powder is also available from a natural foods co-op called Azure Standard but it requires a few hoops to be jumped through in order to purchase from them. If you're interested, I'll see if I can get a price so you can decide if it's worth your while.

NHE

[gibbledygook]

wow! Thanks. I'll check them out.

[CureOrBust]

I am about to buy some as well, so I did a quick search, and found the following.

This one says its for 6000mg, but that's the "leaf equivalent" and all the tablets I see at iHerb are 50:1, 120mg, as is this one.
Lamberts Ginkgo 6000mg Extra High Strength

Nutritional Information per Daily Intake (1 tablet)

6000mg Ginkgo Biloba leaves (provided by 120mg of a 50:1 extract)
28.8mg Flavonglycosides
7.2mg Ginkgolides A, B and C ad Bilobalides

Then I found this one.
High-dose ginkgo may protect brain cells from stroke damage

In the study, researchers gave ginkgo biloba EGb 761 - a lab-quality form of the extract .... The EGb 761 ginkgo biloba extract is available in the US as a dietary supplement, made available by Nature’s Way in their Ginkgold brand supplement
...Doré and his team gave 100 milligrams per kilogram of EGb 761 extract orally once daily ... (to mice)
... (A bioequivalent dose in humans would probably cause an increased risk of bleeds or hemorrhagic stroke - ed) ...

Which can be purchased from iHerb http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.asp ... =4225&at=0
Where they also advertise that it has been "Used in over 400 studies", and it is only 60mg. They also say:

Ginkgold works best for mental function. In head-to-head research against other Ginkgo extracts:
* Only Ginkgold increased activity in all areas of the brain
* Only Ginkgold produced potent alpha-enhancing effects.
* Only Ginkgold could be classified as a cognitive activator.

But of course there is no details on this fact. However, maybe they will give you these studies if you contact them directly. Especially if you express your concerns / doubts in the strength of this product; which is not cheap. But you may want to also get some idea on the maximum human safe dose used in these studies.

The FULL article of the below would be good to read for the current topic
Comparison of Antioxidant Activity in Commercial Ginkgo biloba Preparations

[gibbledygook]

Thanks Cureo, there are some nice leads here. I'm just going to have to take a lot of pills to get to 4.8g to 6g daily. A bore but I think it'll be worth it.

[gibbledygook]

I am now going to experiment with the newly arrived gingko biloba Doctor's Best 120mg pills which contain the same strength of glycosides and terpenes as the herbalextractsplus pills (ie 24% glycoside and 6%terpene). Just in case they are stronger than herbalextractsplus I'm going to start with 5 pills in one sitting. If I can't detect a problem or a lowering in tingling then I'll up the dose to 1.2g per sitting and back to 4 to 5 times daily.

Interestingly the doctor's best pills look and smell a lot more like how I remember the original herbalextractsplus pills in that they are quite pale. This is quite unlike the latest herbalextractsplus which are really quite dark and smell very different. I simply don't believe that herbs are so variable and they certainly shouldn't be so variable as to make one's customers concerned!! I wonder how many other herbalextractsplus customers get nervous about herbal variance.

I have to confess that since I ran out of gingko biloba I have been in a state of almost panic.