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gibbledygook
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Post by gibbledygook »

I continue to enjoy virtually no tingling after the introduction of horsechestnut, several grams a day.
1: Acta Pharmacol Sin. 2004 Jul;25(7):869-75.Links
Effects of sodium beta-aescin on expression of adhesion molecules and migration of neutrophils after middle cerebral artery occlusion in rats.Hu XM, Zhang Y, Zeng FD.
Institute of Clinical Pharmacology, Tongji Medical College of Huazhong University of Science and Technology, Wuhan 430030, China.

AIM: To investigate the effects of sodium beta-aescin on neutrophil migration and expression of adhesion molecules (ICAM-1 and E-selectin) after middle cerebral artery occlusion (MCAO) in rats. METHODS: Rats were pretreated with sodium beta-aescin for 7 d and then subjected to cerebral ischemia/reperfusion (I/R) injury induced by an MCAO. After a 2-h ischemia and a 24-h reperfusion, the infarct volume and neurological deficit were determined by the method of TTC staining and the Longa's score. The effect of sodium beta-aescin on the migration of neutrophils was evaluated by measuring the activity of myeloperoxidase (MPO) enzyme. The expressions of adhesion molecules were determined by immunohistochemistry and Western blot. RESULTS: Sodium beta-aescin significantly reduced the cerebral infarct volume and ameliorated the neurological deficit (P<0.05 or P<0.01). The MPO activity and the expressions of ICAM-1 and E-selectin in the vehicle-treated rats were increased significantly (P<0.01) after cerebral I/R. After treatment with sodium beta-aescin, the enzymatic activity of MPO and the expressions of these adhesion molecules were significantly reduced compared with the vehicle-treated group (P<0.05 or P<0.01). CONCLUSION: Sodium beta-aescin can attenuate brain injury, down-regulate the protein expressions of ICAM-1 and E-selectin, and reduce the migration of neutrophils after cerebral I/R.

PMID: 15210059 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
1: BMC Cardiovasc Disord. 2001;1:5. Epub 2001 Dec 7. Links
Rational therapy of chronic venous insufficiency--chances and limits of the therapeutic use of horse-chestnut seeds extract.Ottillinger B, Greeske K.
bertram.ottillinger@vicron.net

BACKGROUND AND METHODS: We report two clinical studies, one already published, performed in patients with early and advanced chronic venous insufficiency (CVI). In both, compression therapy and oral therapy with horse-chestnut seeds extracts (HCSE) were compared to placebo. RESULTS: The published study in early CVI (Grade I) showed HCSE and compression to be superior to placebo and to be equivalent to each other in reducing lower leg volume, a measure for oedema.In the study, in advanced CVI (Grade II and IIIa), compression appeared to be superior to placebo, whereas HCSE was not. HCSE fared better in Grade II than in Grade IIIa patients.These results are discussed in the light of data from an in vitro model, where HCSE has been able to close the intercellular gaps in the venular endothelium. Not fully specified factors lead to an opening of these gaps, resulting in oedema as well as in local coagulation and thrombosis. The subsequent inflammation keeps these gaps open and initiates and maintains a chronic disease process, which may be the starting point of CVI. CONCLUSION: Due to its ability to close the venular endothelial gaps, HCSE seems to be a suitable and protecting therapy during the early stages of CVI. In later more severe stages compression therapy is indicated. Taking into account the observed negative impact of compression on quality of life, pharmacological CVI therapy should start early to avoid progress and to spare patients compression therapy.

PMID: 11747472 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCID: PMC61039
link
1: Eur J Pharmacol. 1998 Mar 12;345(1):89-95. Links
Effect of aescine on hypoxia-induced neutrophil adherence to umbilical vein endothelium.Bougelet C, Roland IH, Ninane N, Arnould T, Remacle J, Michiels C.
Laboratoire de Biochimie et Biologie Cellulaire, Facultés Universitaires Notre-Dame de la Paix, Namur, Belgium.

Although venous stasis due to blood stagnation in lower limbs has been recognised as an important etiological factor for the development of varicose veins, the mechanism linking this ischemic situation to the modifications of the venous wall in varicose veins is still unclear. There is evidence that the activation of the endothelium during blood stasis and its subsequent cascade of interactions with other cell types could alter the structure of the vein wall and could possibly be at the origin of the disease. While phlebotonic drugs are often used to improve symptoms in chronic venous insufficiency, their precise mechanism of action is not well understood. We now tested aescine (Reparil i.v. form) in an ex vivo model which mimics this situation, i.e., perfused human umbilical vein exposed to hypoxic conditions. To study the effect of aescine on neutrophil activation and adhesion to the endothelium, human umbilical veins were incubated under hypoxic conditions with or without aescine and the interactions between the endothelium and neutrophil-like cells, HL60, were investigated. We observed that a large number of HL60 became adherent to the endothelium of veins after 2 h hypoxia and that these adherent HL60 were activated: they released high amounts of superoxide anion and of leukotriene B4. Aescine (250 ng/ml or 0.22 microM) was shown to markedly inhibit HL60 adherence to hypoxic endothelium. By decreasing the number of adherent HL60, aescine also decreased the subsequent production of superoxide anion and of leukotriene B4. Scanning electron microscopy confirmed the increased HL60 adherence to the endothelium, as well as the inhibitory effect of aescine. These results support results of in vitro studies on isolated endothelial cells in which aescine was shown to inhibit the hypoxia-induced activation of endothelial cells and the subsequent increased adherence of neutrophils. In vivo, the activated and infiltrated leukocytes release free radicals, chemotactic molecules such as leukotriene B4 and proteases which then can degrade the extracellular matrix. These processes could contribute to alterations of the venous wall similar to those observed in varicose veins. By maintaining an intact endothelium during in vivo blood stasis in the lower limbs and preventing neutrophil recruitment, adherence and activation, aescine could prevent the resulting alterations of the venous wall. These results could explain at least in part the potential benefit of the drug in the prevention of venous insufficiency.

PMID: 9593599 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
link
1: Biol Pharm Bull. 1997 Oct;20(10):1092-5.Links
Effects of escins Ia, Ib, IIa, and IIb from horse chestnut, the seeds of Aesculus hippocastanum L., on acute inflammation in animals.Matsuda H, Li Y, Murakami T, Ninomiya K, Yamahara J, Yoshikawa M.
Kyoto Pharmaceutical University, Japan.

We investigated the effects of escins Ia, Ib, and IIb isolated from horse chestnut, the seeds of Aesculus hippocastanum L., and desacylescins I and II obtained by alkaline hydrolysis of escins on acute inflammation in animals (p.o.). Escins Ia, Ib, IIa, and IIb (50-200 mg/kg) inhibited the increase of vascular permeability induced by both acetic acid in mice and histamine in rats. Escins Ib, IIa, and IIb (50-200 mg/kg) also inhibited that induced by serotonin in rats, but escin Ia didn't. Escins Ia, Ib, IIa, and IIb (200 mg/kg) inhibited the hind paw edema induced by carrageenin at the first phase in rats. Escin Ia (200 mg/kg) and escins Ib, IIa, and IIb (50-200 mg/kg) inhibited the scratching behavior induced by compound 48/80 in mice, but escin Ia was weakest. Desacylescins I and II (200 mg/kg) showed no effect. With regard to the relationship between their chemical structures and activities, the acyl groups in escins were essential. Escins Ib, IIa, and IIb with either the 21-angeloyl group or the 2'-O-xylopyranosyl moiety showed more potent activities than escin Ia which had both the 21-tigloyl group and the 2'-O-glucopyranosyl moiety.

PMID: 9353571 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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gibbledygook
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Post by gibbledygook »

Now that I have pared the ginkgo and salvia right down, the introduction of horsechestnut keeps having negative effects. I am now taking only 1.44grams of ginkgo with 4.8grams of salvia daily with 4.8g of curcumin and up to 7.2g of scutellaria. This dose seems to be the minimal effective amount, in that if I take any less I get tingling and pain in the left leg at night and the night spasms return. A few days ago on this level of ginkgo and salvia I tried a combined herbal extract of diosmin, horsechestnut and butcher's broom. That night I had very severe spasms so I discontinued it and the spasms went away. Then yesterday I tried 1.8g of horsechestnut alone, taking 600mg before breakfast, lunch and supper. At night I had quite a few spasms until I felt my late night dose of ginkgo and salvia kick in when the spasms abated.
I now am rather confused about the effects of horsechestnut. It initially seemed to be good at rather high dose with a high dose of ginkgo. However at the time I was taking an absurd quantity of ginkgo which I now know can have a good effect at much lower doses. Maybe one needs a higher vasodilator (ginkgo) to vasoconstrictor (horsechestnut) ratio.


My legs seem much less tingly and stronger on this ginkgo/salvia combination so I'm not sure that the horsechestnut is even necessary but the research on it suggests a very positive effect. Maybe however it has too much vasoconstrictive properties and that this is the principal problem in the MS vasculature. Certainly my recent experiments with horsechestnut are suggesting that I stick to the vasodilators. Or have a higher vasodilator to vasoconstrictor ratio. But if so why bother with the vasoconstrictor?!
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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gibbledygook
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quercetin inhibits myeloperoxidase

Post by gibbledygook »

as does rutin but not as much as the plant pterogyne nitens.
: Phytochemistry. 2008 May;69(8):1739-44. Epub 2008 Apr 7. Links
Flavonols from Pterogyne nitens and their evaluation as myeloperoxidase inhibitors.Regasini LO, Vellosa JC, Silva DH, Furlan M, de Oliveira OM, Khalil NM, Brunetti IL, Young MC, Barreiro EJ, Bolzani VS.
Universidade Estadual Paulista, Instituto de Química, NuBBE - Núcleo de Bioensaios, Biossíntese e Ecofisiologia de Produtos Naturais, Araraquara, SP, CP 355, CEP 14801-970, Brazil.

A myeloperoxidase inhibitory kaempferol derivative, namely pterogynoside (1), was isolated from fruits of Pterogyne nitens, along with six known flavonols, kaempferol, afzelin, kaempferitrin, quercetin, isoquercetrin and rutin. The structures of all compounds were elucidated primarily from 1D and 2D NMR spectroscopic analyses, as well as by high resolution mass spectrometry. All flavonols were screened to identify secondary metabolites as potential myeloperoxidase (MPO) inhibitors, and at concentrations of 0.50-50nM, quercetin (5), isoquercitrin (6) and rutin (7) exhibited strong inhibitory effects with IC50 values of 1.22+/-0.01, 3.75+/-0.02 and 3.60+/-0.02, respectively. The MPO activity detected for the new derivative 1 was markedly decreased (IC(50) 10.3+/-0.03) when compared with known flavonols 5-7, and interestingly increased when tested against ABTS scavenging activity.

PMID: 18395762 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
link

we need to lower myeloperoxidase:
1: Neurosci Lett. 2008 Oct 24;444(2):195-8. Epub 2008 Aug 15. Links
Elevated myeloperoxidase activity in white matter in multiple sclerosis.Gray E, Thomas TL, Betmouni S, Scolding N, Love S.
MS Laboratories, Burden Centre, University of Bristol Institute of Clinical Neurosciences, Frenchay Hospital, Bristol BS16 1JB, United Kingdom.

Recent studies have revealed extensive axonal damage in patients with progressive multiple sclerosis (MS). Axonal damage can be caused by a plethora of factors including the release of proteolytic enzymes and cytotoxic oxidants by activated immune cells and glia within the lesion. Macrophages and microglia are known to express myeloperoxidase (MPO) and generate reactive oxygen species during myelin phagocytosis in the white matter. In the present study we have measured MPO levels in post-mortem homogenates of demyelinated and non-demyelinated regions of white matter from nine patients with MS and seven controls, and assessed MPO immunoreactivity within MS brain. In homogenates of MS white matter, demyelination was associated with significantly elevated MPO activity when compared to controls. Immunohistochemistry showed MPO to be expressed mainly by macrophages within and adjacent to plaques. Demyelination in MS is associated with increased activity of MPO, suggesting that this production of reactive oxygen species may contribute to axonal injury within plaques.

PMID: 18723077 [PubMed - in process]
link
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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DIM
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Post by DIM »

LEF provides some quercetin reasearch abstracts:
http://www.lef.org/abstracts/codex/quer ... tracts.htm
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Post by cheerleader »

Myeloperoxidase is a green heme protein, and is what makes your phlegm or pus green when you have an infection....yuck!

Gotta say, Jeff's daily EGCG/quercetin combo is making him feel really terrific. I know Lance Armstrong is hawking this combo in his FRS energy drink, but it's possible to buy them as supplements.
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Post by DIM »

Cheer as you know quercetin with EGCG reduces uric acid levels and helps patients with gout so wonder how it can be so helpful in MS while works contrary to inosine?
I ordered though both and plan to give them to my wife every morning different hours from inosine for the above reason.
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Post by cheerleader »

DIM wrote:Cheer as you know quercetin with EGCG reduces uric acid levels and helps patients with gout so wonder how it can be so helpful in MS while works contrary to inosine?.
I didn't know this, Dmitris. You're right, EGCG has been shown to block xanthine oxidase (XO) the precursor to Uric Acid.

Here's some more info on EGCG from the doctor in Berlin who is seeing good results with MS patients-

"As its structure implicates additional antioxidative properties, EGCG is capable of directly protecting against neuronal injury in living brain tissue induced by N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), and of directly blocking the formation of neurotoxic reactive oxygen species in neurons."
Dr. Orhan Aktas
My observations are purely anecdotal. Jeff had been taking inosine for 18 months prior to starting EGCG and quercetin. He was still suffering debilitating fatigue. Since begin EGCG and quercetin in August, he has improved 100%, to the point of no longer needing provigil to stay awake. He visited his parents last week, and his mother called to tell me it was wonderful to see her son full of energy and life again. This combination of antioxidants has worked for him...but for the life of me, I don't know why. Time to get that molecular biology degree :)
I hope it helps your dear wife!
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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DIM
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Post by DIM »

Ok Cheer you convince me to stop wifes inosine when EGCG-Quercetin is here although I give her daily pycnogenol (100mg), resveratrol(50mg) and gingko (50mg), all help endohtelium function.
As my wife has some of Jeff's symptoms, say brown spots and increased liver enzymes hope your combination will be helpful for us, by the way the EGCG I ordered is 350mg/caps from Source Naturals so it contains large amounts of caffein, am I wrong?
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Post by cheerleader »

DIM wrote:by the way the EGCG I ordered is 350mg/caps from Source Naturals so it contains large amounts of caffein, am I wrong?
Source Naturals has 16g of caffeine. You can get Teavigo, which is caffeine free and has 50mg. EGCG per tablet.

Jeff has responded the best to NSI GreenSelect 600mg. (100mg. EGCG) - which is also caffeine free. It is bioavailable with added "phytosome." He takes one tablet with a tablet of quercetin (500mg. by Jarrow) in 2 hour intervals...(11am, 1pm, 3pm) for a daily total of 1500mg. quercetin and 300mg. EGCG.
I am not sure what is available to you in Greece...
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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DIM
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Post by DIM »

Unfortunately (for us) Cheer I order all my supplements from USA cause they cost me fewer money although I pay shippings and taxes!
I read that in clinical trials they use 700mg EGCG with 500mg quercetin and plan to give the same amount to my wife although Source Naturals contains as you say large amounts caffein, in worst case I'll give her 350mg EGCG with 500mg quercetin.
I have read very bad comments about NSI products and their purity so have a look (for example their curcumin has many toxic ingredients).
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Re: EGCG & Caffeine

Post by NHE »

cheerleader wrote:Source Naturals has 16g of caffeine. You can get Teavigo, which is caffeine free and has 50mg. EGCG per tablet.
I hope that you really meant to write 16mg and not 16g (the latter dosage might very well be lethal).

NHE
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Re: EGCG & Caffeine

Post by cheerleader »

NHE wrote:
cheerleader wrote:Source Naturals has 16g of caffeine. You can get Teavigo, which is caffeine free and has 50mg. EGCG per tablet.
I hope that you really meant to write 16mg and not 16g (the latter dosage might very well be lethal).

NHE
bingo. MG!
g. wold be quite an energy enhancer!
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Post by NHE »

According to the Death by Caffeine website, 16g would be enough to kill me twice over! A lethal dose for my weight would be 8.5g.

NHE
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Post by DIM »

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Post by DIM »

Interesting both EGCG and Curcumin inhibit fatty acid metabolism so if am correct they should not be taken along with omega-3:
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Neuoral plasticity stimulated with EGCG?
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