herbals

Loobie · Post by **Loobie** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:23 pm

Great article Robs

robbie · Post by **robbie** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:43 am

"There are some MS patients who are emotionally disabled from their disease, and if we can use cannabis to help them feel better about the world or life, we should," he said. "We need to always err on the side of doing what's best for our patients. And I don't necessarily believe there is a permanent damage to the brain, based on occasional marijuana use. If they're smoking 10 times a day, yes, there will be damage done. But this goes for excessive alcohol use, too. So, I think we're going to end up somewhere in the middle with this."

thanks Lew it's good once and a while to read old posts
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 57_pf.html

peekaboo · Post by **peekaboo** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:08 pm

I think i heard on this am news that there will be a program on TV discussing the legalization of MJ....when where I'm don't remember i thought they said ABC

robbie · Post by **robbie** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:44 pm

Its legal here peekaboo just ok from your neuro

chrishasms · Post by **chrishasms** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:32 pm

Life has gotten a lot simpler down here in the US in the medically approved states since this man took office.

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robbie · Post by **robbie** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:31 pm

researchers found that cannabinoids promoted generation of new neurons in rats' hippocampuses.

The scientists also noticed that cannabinoids curbed depression and anxiety

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/stu ... cle893819/

siren · Post by **siren** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:48 am

Hi All,

Does anyone has any comments on Nigella Sativa Oil or I think it is commonly known as Black Seed Oil ? I have people both encouraging and discouraging me to take them as supplement. You think will it do any good to MS ?

foreignlesion · Post by **foreignlesion** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:02 pm

I have been a marijuana smoker for about 8 years. I started 4 years prior to onset. Since diagnosis this Feb., I have been very cognizant of my usage and its affects. In my experience, different strains definitely have a different effect. There are some that worsen my spasticity and turn it into tremor, making it almost impossible to walk. There are others that totally drain me. I have found the best strains for me are the ones that give me a playful thinking high. It eases my anxiety, boosts my energy and everything relaxes. Problem is, I don't always know what strain I am getting, there is no choice with government supplied weed here in Canada and I don't have reliable sources. I am currently in process of applying for gov't approval to grow my own. Has anyone here had any experience with applying for gov't approval? I'd like to know.

Wonderfulworld · Post by **Wonderfulworld** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:38 am

My brother is worried about the flu pandemic and has bought Sambucol for the whole extended family. I looked it up on NIH http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11399518 - seems to increase inflammatory cytokines and alpha TNF significantly.

I have always failed to grasp the pro/anti immune-system arguments out there about MS - I suppose subjectively I don't feel that MS is immune-modulated but that's just a feeling. For years I avoided any immune-boosters and just ended up with loads and loads of infections and viruses - which flared up my MS anyway so it's complicated.

Does anyone else take this product? Have any thoughts on it - pro or anti? I am weighing up the information....

Post by **jimmylegs** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:43 am

i don't know about the product, but i am not averse to taking the right kind of immune system boosters - such as vitamin d3 and zinc

selenium too, as i am just starting to investigate.

Wonderfulworld · Post by **Wonderfulworld** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:28 pm

Yes somehow I feel ok about the zinc and d3 etc but sambucol mentioned a 44-fold increase in TNF. That seems like a lot of a change. I just don't know enough to know if that's good or bad.
Found another website that said Sambucol is contraindicated in MS, SLE and RA. Maybe not for me.......

Post by **jimmylegs** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:57 am

hi again ww, i had a quick look at sambucol and no, i don't think it would be a particularly wise choice for an ms patient, at all. my understanding is that TNF-alpha is pro-inflammatory, and TNF is anti-inflammatory.
i think i found the abstract you referred to. sambucol appears to increase pro-inflammatory TNF-alpha by 44.9 times, not the anti-inflammatory TNF.
among other nutrients, d3 is anti-inflammatory and so are zinc and selenium. those are the kind of immune system boosters you want - the ones that support its "stop attacking now" functions.

The effect of Sambucol, a black elderberry-based, natural product, on the production of human cytokines
Sambucus nigra L. products - Sambucol - are based on a standardized black elderberry extract... The most striking increase was noted in TNF-alpha production (44.9 fold)... increasing inflammatory cytokine production.

this next is from one of those murine EAE studies but nonetheless:

Augmentation of natural immunity to a pro-inflammatory cytokine (TNF-alpha) by targeted DNA vaccine confers long-lasting resistance to experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis
...TNF-alpha is thought to be a key pro-inflammatory cytokine in T cell-mediated autoimmune diseases, particularly in rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and multiple sclerosis (MS).

IFN-beta inhibits the ability of T lymphocytes to induce TNF-alpha and IL-1beta production in monocytes upon direct cell-cell contact.
...Tumour necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha and interleukin (IL-)1beta, essential players in the pathogenesis of immuno-inflammatory diseases...IFN-beta inhibited the production of TNF-alpha and IL-1beta by 88 and 98%, respectively...

TNF is a potent anti-inflammatory cytokine in autoimmune-mediated demyelination.
Multiple sclerosis (MS) is an inflammatory disease of the central nervous system (CNS) characterized by localized areas of demyelination... treatment with TNF dramatically reduces disease severity...

hth,
JL

Post by **jimmylegs** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:25 am

selenium against viruses:

Selenium Deficiency and Viral Infection
The discovery that the juvenile cardiomyopathy known as Keshan disease likely has a dual etiology that involves both a nutritional deficiency of the essential trace mineral selenium (Se) as well as an infection with an enterovirus provided the impetus for additional studies of relationships between nutrition and viral infection. An amyocarditic strain of coxsackievirus B3, CVB3/0, converted to virulence when it was inoculated into Se-deficient mice. This conversion was accompanied by changes in the genetic structure of the virus so that its genome closely resembled that of other known virulent CVB3 strains.

Nutritionally induced oxidative stress: effect on viral disease
It has long been known that the nutritional status of the host can influence both susceptibility to infectious disease and the severity of the disease if contracted. In studies of coxsackievirus infection and selenium deficiency in mice, we found that mice fed a selenium-deficient diet developed myocarditis, but mice fed a diet adequate in selenium did not.

for that matter, if we're looking at oxidative stress, i've learned over the last year that
A. correcting the zinc that tends to be low in ms patients, can
B. correct the uric acid level that tends to be low in ms patients
and we know uric acid is a powerful antioxidant.
also,

SELENIUM, VITAMIN E AND COPPER IN MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS
...western district of Finland... Se content of whole blood was low (52.8 ± 11.3 ng/ml) in MS patients from this high-risk area compared to the controls (68.8 ± 11.0). The data for serum failed to confirm this tendency. All Se values appeared to he lower than international values suggested.

(i have also been waiting on a selenium test - will post results in my regimen thread).

Wonderfulworld · Post by **Wonderfulworld** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:26 am

Thanks JL you're brilliant! Yes I think I'll give the Sambucol to my husband and start eating some more brazil nuts (selenium)

. Those abstracts are very informative - many thanks again.

Post by **jimmylegs** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:05 pm

good call on the brazil nuts, ww

i have heard 3 per day in order to maintain a good level.
if we ms-ers are stuck in the 50s and going for the 70s to match healthy controls, i suspect we have to get a bit more than three into our systems daily!
woe is me, if only i did not despise brazil nuts

lol

(it turns out the lab screwed up my selenium test - and vitA and vitE - i was just down there giving them MORE blood... i used to be needle phobic if u can believe it... thoroughly desensitized now...)

ttfn,
JL

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Sambucol, influenza and MS