CCSVI and epigentics

LR1234 · Post by **LR1234** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:15 am

Hi,
I posted this something similar in the genes section.
I watched a programme yesterday all about epigenetics and identical twins.
They studied 2 cases where 1 twin developed Lukemia and the other didn't and in another set of twins 1 developed Type 1 diabetes and the other didn't. They concluded that the enviroment would have changed their epigenetics as they were 100% genetic clones of eachother.

The reason I am writing this in the CCSVI section is because that got me thinking about CCSVI as a cause for MS. I saw a study that suggested if 1 twin developed MS then the likelihood that the second twin may develop MS is about 30 percent. (if someone can get some more accurate statistics that would be great)

If CCSVI is congential then surely both identical twins would always get MS as its a mechanical problem which cannot be overcome.

If it is an aquired problem then perhaps it would be enviromental triggers that cause 1 twin and not the other to get MS.

Any thoughts? Would be great to study an identical set of twins, 1 with MS and 1 without to see if there veins are the same. It would also show that if they both have occluded veins that it may not always mean that person will develop MS.

bestadmom · Post by **bestadmom** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:50 am

My co-worker's dad and his identical twin brother both have ms. I gave her the CCSVI info for them - perhaps to go to Jacobs since they are in CT.

Michelle

cheerleader · Post by **cheerleader** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:11 am

It could all be about copy number variation and development of venous stenosis....My Dad is an identical twin, and he and his brother have different foot and head sizes, my Dad's teeth are more crowded than his brother's..one twin might have a tighter neck space. Many more variables in identical twins than previously thought, due to CNVs. More research is needed.

Contrary to our previous beliefs, identical twins are not genetically identical. This surprising finding may be of great significance for research on hereditary diseases and for the development of new diagnostic methods. How can it be that one identical twin might develop Parkinson's disease, for instance, but not the other? Until now, the reasons have been sought in environmental factors. The current study complicates the picture.

Human cloning
The researchers studied 19 pairs of monozygotic, or identical, twins and found differences in copy number variation in DNA. Copy number variation (CNV) occurs when a set of coding letters in DNA are missing, or when extra copies of segments of DNA are produced.
Humans receive one chromosome from their mother and one from their father, providing for two copies of the genome. In some cases, bits of DNA are missing from a chromosome, leaving the offspring with just one copy of that bit of DNA. In other instances, mutations may produce three, four or more copies of a particular bit of DNA. In most cases, variation in the number of copies likely has no impact on health or development. But in others, it may be one factor in the likelihood of developing a disease.
Researchers at UAB( University of Alabama), Leiden University Medical Center and VU University, The Netherlands; and Uppsala University and Karolinska Institutet, Sweden recently published their findings.*
“The presumption has always been that identical twins are identical down to their DNA,” said Carl Bruder, Ph.D. and Jan Dumanski, Ph.D., of UAB’s Department of Genetics and the study’s lead authors. “That’s mostly true, but our findings suggest that there are small, subtle differences due to CNV. Those differences may point the way to better understanding of genetic diseases when we study so-called discordant monozygotic twins….a pair of twins where one twin has a disorder and the other does not.”
Bruder points out that one twin might develop a particular disease…Parkinson’s, for example…while the other does not. Previously, it was thought that environmental factors were the likely culprits, not genetics. Bruder and Dumanski think their findings indicate that CNV may play a critical role and this can be efficiently studied in identical twins.
“More importantly, changes in CNV may tell us if a missing gene, or multiple copies of a gene, are implicated in the onset of disease,” Bruder said. “If twin A develops Parkinson’s and twin B does not, the region of their genome where they show differences is a target for further investigation to discover the basic genetic underpinnings of the disease.”
The UAB lab is one of the few worldwide that can make the full genome BAC (bacterial artificial chromosome) arrays that are used to find the changed DNA regions.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121214.htm

radeck · Post by **radeck** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:29 am

Infection and individual immune response to pathogens (EBV? Cpn?...) likely plays a role as well. I believe the chances for MS in identical twins are about 1/5. Lower in fraternal twins of course. I suspect that probability for CCSVI in an identical twin is larger than the probability of MS. CCSVI could be the pre-condition for MS to develop, but other triggers are needed. Lifestyle (stress levels) plays a role. Some here have mentioned lack of oxygen at high altitude as a trigger.

jay123 · Post by **jay123** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:40 am

Also, with how long MS 'hides' in some people, if one twin has MS it might very well show up at some point.

mrhodes40 · Post by **mrhodes40** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:16 am

In general genetics are far less cut and dried than people thought they were going to be. Remember some few years ago when study of genetics was going to cure diseases? It turns out that there are many loci for nearly all diseases and the copy number variations are very much affected by environment as Cheer posted, so the real fact is that genes are very dynamic not at all set in stone. We are not the mere expression of a genetic blueprint.

Genes can actually be changed by thought....

here is just a hint of that
Wa Post Article

New research suggests that stringent dietary changes, getting more exercise and practicing stress reduction can change the expression of hundreds of genes.....In September 2005, they reported that after intensive lifestyle changes -- consuming a vegan diet with about 10 percent of calories from fat, walking 30 minutes six times a week, and practicing stress management one hour daily -.....Stress management techniques included yoga-based stretching, breathing exercises, meditation, imagery, and progressive relaxation

The idea that we can just go in and change the genes with some kind of sophisticated scientific technique and we would then be changed people is a little naive it turns out........... But the idea that you can change genes yourself is not at all far fetched...

therefore many things about identical twins that were mysterious; why do both twins get strep throat but only one develops the complication rheumatic fever? why MS in one not the other? etc etc turn out not be be an issue if you take into account the fact that genes are not a "blueprint" but more a suggestion of possibilities for the person.