Inclined Bed Therapy

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.
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happy_canuck
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Re: Increase water uptake on I.T.

Post by happy_canuck »

AndrewKFletcher wrote:Another possibility is the dehydrating that takes place as salts are excreted in the urine more effectively, this drags more solvent (water) out of the body into the urine. This can be compensated for by increasing the amount of water you drink.

Andrew
I already had the same thought, Andrew, but I didn't know the mechanism! My urine changed colour a few weeks ago, especially first thing in the a.m. It went darker and then had a greenish hue for a few days. I thought it was from the bladder infection or antibiotics, but maybe not.

I normally hydrate very well through the day, but I will increase and report back.

Leaving now (4 hour drive to where workshop takes place tomorrow! Don't worry, I'm not doing the driving.)

~ Sandra
National CCSVI Society: <strong><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/44znbct">http://tiny ... 44znbct</a> ~Website<br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/3wzmkmg">http://tiny ... 3wzmkmg</a> ~Facebook</strong><br />
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Algis
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Post by Algis »

Yesterday evening I made the last step: bed is now 16cm raised at the head.
My sleep was fine; woke up fine; again a little lower back pain which disappear as I sat in my chair.
I didn't slide much; but as usual I slept like a stone - no move.

If anything changes I'll report.

Thanks Andrew.
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happy_canuck
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Post by happy_canuck »

Hi there,

A quick update -- I went to a clinic before leaving on our 4+ hour car trip and saw two doctors. They added a water pill to my current blood pressure meds and I took one immediately. Now, in our hotel room 250 km up the highway 6 hours later, my BP is 143/83, with a pulse of 66. *whew*

They both said the IBT would not have affected my BP this way and said it was unusual for someone like me, who had been on a single BP med since 2003, not to need an additional type of med. They said one med loses effectiveness over time, although they did say my increase was rather dramatic and "through the roof."

No matter -- I drank LOADS of water today, took a water pill, and tried as best I could to rest in the torrents of rain on the drive here. These therapies must have worked.

I'll check back Tuesday with another update.

~ Sandra
National CCSVI Society: <strong><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/44znbct">http://tiny ... 44znbct</a> ~Website<br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/3wzmkmg">http://tiny ... 3wzmkmg</a> ~Facebook</strong><br />
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AndrewKFletcher
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The doctors are not aware of changes in pressure from I.T

Post by AndrewKFletcher »

Hi Sandra

We can't rule out the Inclined Bed with regards to blood pressure. It may be that the extra efficiency of the heart (stronger beat and increased stroke volume) due to the assistance of the sloping bed could still be the cause of your bp increase. The doctors are not aware of how density changes in fluids alter the pressure inside the body. So I would be very cautious about accepting their reasoning

I know it sounds like I'm shooting I.T. down, but if your particular blockage is exacerbated by tilting the bed, we need to figure out the correct angle for you in order to bring I back down to a reasonable level.

It is very important to monitor your BP in relation to postural changes. Even though this is a gentle and relatively benign therapy, we should still pay close attention to what is happening.

One other thing to ask and I know this can be a touchy subject for some, are you over your ideal weight?
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Sleeping Inclined To Restore and Support Your Health For Free. Fascinating Science, Discovery, History and Medical Research In Circulation And Posture.
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katie45
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question

Post by katie45 »

I spend my days going from w/chair to incline bed, back and forth (mostly for the relief the position change provides) When laying on my back I find myself drawing my knees up with feet flat on bed...I'm wondering if this position impedes the benefits of the straight incline? Sometimes to straighten the right leg while in this position causes painful spasming but if it's important....thx k
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AndrewKFletcher
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Keeping legs flat and stretched out on Inclined Therapy

Post by AndrewKFletcher »

Katie45

Yes, raising the knees up is certainly going to comprimise the full effects, and those spasms you are getting when you put your legs down may be a precurser to impending improvements.

Have these spasms changed since tilting the bed?

Andrew
Inclined Bed Therapy (IBT) | http://www.inclinedbedtherapy.com
Sleeping Inclined To Restore and Support Your Health For Free. Fascinating Science, Discovery, History and Medical Research In Circulation And Posture.
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katie45
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Post by katie45 »

Hi Andrew, yes spasms have improved since IT( 6 days ) They seemed to be involved with painful sciatica attacks which also wraps around and into the groin crease on right leg. Before IT I would scream out with the pain getting in or out of bed....also before It r leg would spasm rigid straight, now obviously, I can bend it and draw knee up by choice and my own volition. This position seems to ease lower back pain a little, but can also see that it may not help overall circulation. Will keep them straight .....'impending improvements'? i love this idea! thx k
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happy_canuck
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Post by happy_canuck »

Hi folks,

My blood pressure / IBT saga cont'd...

We had two nights "flat" -- one at a hotel then another at home last night.

BP upon waking at 6 a.m.: 114/77; pulse 63

I went back to my inclined bed for 3 additional hours (I missed it!) and my BP stayed the same: 115/78; pulse 65

I am taking two BP meds now. One is a "water" pill, but I'm not sure what its relationship to IBT will be?

In any case, I am no longer taking crazy amounts of pain killers, which didn't seem to help anyway with my BP.

I will take my BP when I retire tonight to see if it elevates through the day like it was doing before. When I went to bed last night, it was 138/88, so nothing like the 200's I was seeing in previous days. We had a busy day yesterday: I taught a full day workshop and then we drove 4+ hours home in driving rain (I drove for the last hour), so I think my BP was pretty good, all things considered.

Andrew, I agree the doctors may not realize what IBT can do to salt/water levels. But...their beds in Emergency were inclined about the same as ours as home! I am seeing a very out-of-the-box GP this Thursday and will ask him to give further guidance.

In the meantime, I am thinking happy thoughts, drinking loads of water, and continuing my low-salt diet.

Ciao,

~ Sandra
National CCSVI Society: <strong><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/44znbct">http://tiny ... 44znbct</a> ~Website<br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/3wzmkmg">http://tiny ... 3wzmkmg</a> ~Facebook</strong><br />
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happy_canuck
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Post by happy_canuck »

Hi again,

Blood pressure elevated slightly through the day to about the same as day before ~ 135//86 by bedtime.

Another night "flat" and waking BP was 116/83; pulse 63.

The little non-numb patch on my right forefinger has more-or-less stayed in place and I was delighted to see yesterday how my handwriting was better than it has been in years. I could write smaller and it was more like true handwriting than the choppy print/write combo I have done for years.

I am convinced the inclined bed was responsible for reducing the hand numbness and would like to get back to sleeping on the incline as soon as possible. I may try limited sleeping on the inclined bed, say an afternoon nap (which I rarely take) or maybe half the night if I get up in the middle of the night.

Andrew, if you could write me a description of what IBT was doing with my salt levels that I could take to my doctor Thursday, I would greatly appreciate it. He is an extremely forward-looking doctor and a strong supporter of CCSVI. I am thankful for any help you can offer to solve the mystery of what may have happened to my BP over the past 3 weeks.

~ Sandra
National CCSVI Society: <strong><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/44znbct">http://tiny ... 44znbct</a> ~Website<br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/3wzmkmg">http://tiny ... 3wzmkmg</a> ~Facebook</strong><br />
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AndrewKFletcher
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Blood pressure, inclined therapy and density regulated flow

Post by AndrewKFletcher »

Hi Sandra

When we sleep flat the body stores salts because they do not migrate to the kidneys as efficiently as when we are sleeping inclined. When salts are concentrated by evaporation as we exhale and from continuous loss of moisture from the skin, and eyes, gravity dictates that these denser fluids must move towards the ground. If we are sleeping on an angle, the salts can flow down the main artery for example and into the kidneys, where they are filtered more efficiently, flowing on into the bladder, where eventually excreted in the urine. The salts and minerals can be found in lime scale deposits in urinals. So there is no doubt that these dissolved minerals are excreted from the bladder. As I stated before, a simple head down tilt proved the link when my wife’s urine and mine gave us a near water density reading and the opposite occurred when we slept head up or Inclined.

When a person avoids sleeping flat, the circulation is enhanced so that these stored minerals move towards the renal filtration. As they enter the circulation, they introduce an increase in positive pressure to the artery, which is balanced by an increase in tension in the blood within the venous return. Again this tension is obvious given that varicose veins are becoming less obvious and over time have returned to normal looking veins.

In your particular case, though this is merely conjecture now as I do not have any means of testing this, there could be a restricted / kinked venous return, this would mean that the heart is pumping against a constricted vein and because the blood flows out of the heart under an enhanced positive pressure it could lead to a gradual backing up of blood causing an overall increase in blood pressure.

The following paper points out important changes in venous return flow and posture, though does not consider any possible motivating force for this change in flow.


In the vast majority of cases high blood pressure drops and become normal and low blood pressure is also corrected, which I could not understand, but now thanks to Zamboni and his colleagues we are beginning to understand the problems with circulation in ms more.

The difference in venous outflow alters from horizontal to standing. The question is what is happening on an inclined bed and at what angle does it alter?

Human cerebral venous outflow pathway depends on posture and central venous pressure
Author: Andrew K Fletcher
•12:41 PM
J Physiol. 2004 Oct 1;560(Pt 1):317-27. Epub 2004 Jul 29.
Human cerebral venous outflow pathway depends on posture and central venous pressure.

Gisolf J, van Lieshout JJ, van Heusden K, Pott F, Stok WJ, Karemaker JM.

Department of Physiology, Room M01-07, Academic Medical Center, University of Amsterdam, PO Box 22700, 1100 DE Amsterdam, the Netherlands. j.gisolf@amc.uva.nl.

Internal jugular veins are the major cerebral venous outflow pathway in supine humans. In upright humans the positioning of these veins above heart level causes them to collapse. An alternative cerebral outflow pathway is the vertebral venous plexus. We set out to determine the effect of posture and central venous pressure (CVP) on the distribution of cerebral outflow over the internal jugular veins and the vertebral plexus, using a mathematical model. Input to the model was a data set of beat-to-beat cerebral blood flow velocity and CVP measurements in 10 healthy subjects, during baseline rest and a Valsalva manoeuvre in the supine and standing position. The model, consisting of 2 jugular veins, each a chain of 10 units containing nonlinear resistances and capacitors, and a vertebral plexus containing a resistance, showed blood flow mainly through the internal jugular veins in the supine position, but mainly through the vertebral plexus in the upright position. A Valsalva manoeuvre while standing completely re-opened the jugular veins. Results of ultrasound imaging of the right internal jugular vein cross-sectional area at the level of the laryngeal prominence in six healthy subjects, before and during a Valsalva manoeuvre in both body positions, correlate highly with model simulation of the jugular cross-sectional area (R(2) = 0.97). The results suggest that the cerebral venous flow distribution depends on posture and CVP: in supine humans the internal jugular veins are the primary pathway. The internal jugular veins are collapsed in the standing position and blood is shunted to an alternative venous pathway, but a marked increase in CVP while standing completely re-opens the jugular veins.
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happy_canuck
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Re: Blood pressure, inclined therapy and density regulated f

Post by happy_canuck »

AndrewKFletcher wrote:The following paper points out important changes in venous return flow and posture, though does not consider any possible motivating force for this change in flow.
Hi Andrew,

Thank you. I have seen this paper before, but I will now print it and examine it more thoroughly.

My blood pressure did drop initially, down to about 108/77, after two weeks of IBT, if you remember. It was typically in the 118-225 / 78-85 range before. That was on half of the Avapro I am taking now and with no water pill.

These are big changes in BP over a short period of time, which all of the doctors I have seen have remarked on.

My next step is to see if I can wean myself off the additional Avapro and the water pill, over time, while staying on a flat bed for a while. Then I will gently re-introduce the inclined bed and track my BP more closely.

To answer an earlier question you had -- yes, I am a little overweight, but have been so all my life. If anything, my weight is lower now than it has been for the last 10-15 years. My BMI is 25.6, just above "normal" according to my Wii! I think it is recommending I lose another 3 kg.

Thank you so much for the detailed description. I don't know if my venous problems are implicated in this spike in BP. My pulse went lower the higher my BP rose. At one point, my pulse was 43! So my heart got a bit of a break between what must have been very strong beats while the blood surged through.

Cheers,

~ Sandra
National CCSVI Society: <strong><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/44znbct">http://tiny ... 44znbct</a> ~Website<br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/3wzmkmg">http://tiny ... 3wzmkmg</a> ~Facebook</strong><br />
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joyj
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Post by joyj »

hi andrew, still seeing slow improvements. my query im seeing better benefits on my left hand and foot than my right, also would taking half an aspirin a day be helpful.
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AndrewKFletcher
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Inclined Therapy for ms.

Post by AndrewKFletcher »

joyj wrote:hi andrew, still seeing slow improvements. my query im seeing better benefits on my left hand and foot than my right, also would taking half an aspirin a day be helpful.
Great. Scrub the aspirin for the time being. Gingkobiloba is a good alternative and safer than aspirin. But your circulation should continue to improve without the meds.

For now try alternating your sleeping position.

What differences are you noticing recently?

Andrew
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Sleeping Inclined To Restore and Support Your Health For Free. Fascinating Science, Discovery, History and Medical Research In Circulation And Posture.
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joyj
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Post by joyj »

the numbness has gone from the back of my left hand, and the left side of my left foot
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AndrewKFletcher
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Inclined Therapy for ms.

Post by AndrewKFletcher »

Congrats. This must be reassuring about I.T. for you and your family.

Thanks for posting this, it is very important for others to be able to learn from everyone’s experiences using I.T.

We have yet another encouraging post in the CCSVI Tracking thread.

If everyone posted their observations here we will begin to see a pattern emerging, so if you have not done so, crack on and post your report, even if you doubt something as simple as tilting your bed could have these affects, we need to know.

It has been said that tilting a bed could not have an affect on swollen, twisted and kinked veins. CCSVI is after all still an internal a varicose vein.

We have seen that varicose veins (Which also could not possibly repair themselves) to return to normal looking veins over time, even Alun's impressive VV,s have undergone substantial improvements. And VV's were also once thought to require surgery and a sloping bed tilted the opposite way around to that recommended by doctors and surgeons has worked!

I put it to Dr Zamboni and others considering surgery to use this free simple therapy first before undergoing surgery.

I have seen recoveries from MS using Inclined therapy that have lasted so far 12 years without a relapse. This must surely tell us something about the cause of the CCSVI and ms. Could flat bed rest be responsible for screwing up the nervous system and causing the veins to swell and distort? YES it can!
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