Inclined Bed Therapy

[joyj]

hi andrew i just got my humidity meter, but i dont understand what it should be. the temp in my flat is 18 degrees and humidity is 61% is that good or bad.

i had acupuncture today, she said my feet were bleeding more than usual when needles come out. must be good circulation.

[AndrewKFletcher]

Joyj
61% is quite high yes.

dehumidifier is a smart move, choose one that is quiet so can be left on at night. We got a delonghi compact for £45.00 a few days ago from local paper, was a good choice, because it can operate at lower temperatures without freezing up. Removes up to 10 litres per day, so not suitable for a large house but certainly quiet enough to leave in bedroom and there is a humidistat so it can switch off and on when humidity changes.

Andrew

[Asher]

Hi guys, 4 weeks into 6” IBT: Swollen purple foot disappeared, no foot spasms at night, I dream intensly, improved stamina and libido, waking has somewhat improved. In fact in my IB I feel like there is nothing wrong with me. Asher N=1 -Amsterdam, Holland

[Asia]

Thanks Andrew
My father had a stroke of ingenuity and he brought a car elevator to set my bed to exactly 8 inches/20cm and be done with in.

As far as my 4th week of IBT went:
Unpleasant bits first, I have trouble falling asleep, and I don't sleep as soundly as before. I get hot, and I can't stand having my hands covered (which is strange because I usually get cold when lying down). I didn't dream all week.
And good stuff, I think my fatigue is improved. I sleep less (today 9 hours, while it's usually 11h) and I stay up for 13 hours without the usual zombie afternoons and evenings. Moreover, I doubled my exercise regimen, I do get exhausted, but I recover very swiftly and can function normally afterwards. The wheather is awful so I don't attribute my state of wellbeing to it.

[nicko]

Well i'm definately dreaming, feels like the dreams I had as a child. Mainly if something stirs me before my normal waking time, I usually remember some very vivid dreams. Before IBT I can't remember when the last time I had a dream. The odd thing is the dreams usually have something to do with what I was working on or doing that day.

I think i'm about a month in with the IBT. *keeping fingers crossed* that this is the start of more improvements.

[pmouse]

Thank you Andrew for IBT

I am now 6 weeks on 6" IT and I have to say that I am hardly waiting to go to bed.
I fell asleep very fast, have vivid dreams, no need for going to WC at night any more, even if I drank more in the evening.
I need less sleep as before 5-6 hours.
It began to happen so I am quiet happy.

Is it better to have more raised bed? Going tron 6 to 8" ?

Regards

[Interrupted]

Help?

Hi Andrew,

A week in at 6" incline and it's causing me merry hell to be honest. The first night was fine and the next morning I felt 'stretched' and cool if a bit headachey. Since every night i've been unable to fall asleep, waking up exhausted and hardly able to move (my mobility is normally fine), a varicose vein in my leg hurts like hell, i'm tingling all over (not normal), O.N. has gotten much worse, headaches worse, strength and fatigue appalling for the first half of the day. I just barely wake up feeling like I can't actually wake up, if you know what I mean. Feeling so rough I just want to go back to sleep so I don't have to deal with the symptoms.

I tried to read as much of the thread as possible but with the reflare O.N. it's quite difficult so a summary on what's going on and if I should stop would be appreciated if possible? Because i'm actually getting quite worried i'm doing myself more harm than good. Lying in bed for hours being unable to fall asleep 'til about 4am or past was not quite what I expected :-/

Thank you for any response,
Jacqui

[esta]

Hi interrupted
I no professional and probably shouldn't write, but I know exactly how you are feeling. We went from 4 to 7 inches I'm telling you it took at least a week to get over this, and all my complaints. I hung in there it's working great now. Hopefully yours will change also soon.

[AndrewKFletcher]

Hi Jacqui

First 2 weeks can be troublesome, have mentioned this lots of times now. Following the first two weeks it begins to get easier.

Trouble is people tilt their beds and expect nothing to happen. Then when gravity kicks in it becomes very scary for some, though not all. Some are very lucky and experience good results from day one.

Others experience the shock of the huge detox Inclined Therapy initiates. This movement of solutes through the vessels is probably what causes the deamed adverse affects.

Sleeping flat is an option but if I were you I would stick it out and see what happens in a few more weeks.

Others have also reported feeling considerably worse before getting better in all three studies.

Someone mentioned a bout of optic neuritis followed by sight improvements a few posts back.

Regarding sleeping / unable to sleep, this is probably because you have been scared, thinking nothing much could possibly happen and not an unreasonable reaction to the unknown.

Hang in there Jacgui.

Andrew

[kc]

jacqui,

I also had a "flare" of ON that scared me when I started ibt. It scared the hell out of me. BUT it went away after a couple of weeks and my eyesight improved a little. During this time when my ON flared I left the grocery store before I was done because I could not tolerate the lights and I was sooo scared I had to go home. I did my "chi machine" (a little thing you put your ankles in and it moves them back and forth) and I also took my mega foods calcium magnesium and potassium. That helped and gradually the ON cleared.
I have not had an ON problem in about 7 years so I figured it was def. the ibt. It was. It improved and I am seeing improvements now after 2 months.

I know it helps to hear stories that are similar to your own,.

keep going

kc

also I felt like I was "drunk" for the first couple of weeks. (not in a good way) That has also gone.

[AndrewKFletcher]

Esta: None of us are professionals but we are doing ok for amateurs. However, your words from your own experience carry far more weight than any plaque on a wall!

Thank you for helping Jacqui to understand how I.T. worked out for you. Very helpful.


KC Thanks for chiming in with your observations. Great help for Interrupted.

Andrew

[Interrupted]

Thank you all, the personal stories do help enormously.

I would clarify that i'm certainly not scared to sleep, just don't seem to be able to. I've also done many programmes that claim to get worse before they get better so it's definitely nothing new, lol. It seems that this part is a bit of a mystery.

I am one of the unlucky ones that also has pretty brutal CFS on top of the MS so things do tend to go rather differently for me than others. Annoyingly!

I detox (gently) pretty constantly and successfully in general terms to keep things moving, and take all the supplements and bolstering my body needs. I would be amazed if anything was lacking.

So i'll stick with it a few more days and we shall see! If it gets to the point where i'm still exhausted and still can't sleep i'll try lowering it a bit. My body cannot cope with exhaustion ontop of everyday CFS fatigue so I have to be sensible and be in a position to allow my body to heal itself.

Thanks once again, very much appreciated x

[ms2009]

Dad... a few questions!

this needs to be tested properly and i am sure there are lots of people on this web page who could help you and point you in the right direction

how can my dad get this trialed under strict medical conditions/controlled experiments/clinical trials and have the real evidence recorded? who can he apply to? who does he need to talk to? how does he go about getting this done?

someone out there must hold the answers
please help point my dad in the right direction!

Hi Wilfy,
The observations are important for sure and they might have a good impact for a lot of people with various cases (MS, heart issues, circulation problems ...).

However, your dad might not be able to bring it forth himself only (I am not sure about his academic or practical training). It needs someone with a good academic background or a research background to handle the case and produce rigorous studies.

First of all, he needs to contact a researcher in a university environment or a research lab. It might take some take and give to convince them or the validity of the observations. A petition from patients would help for sure.

The second step is to run a pilot study with a small sample. The funding of the pilot is the most critical point because it is till a pilot project from an un-acclaimed source. If the funding is available, a junior researcher might go for it. If the pilot study proves positive, then the door would start opening themselves.

There are several conditions for this pilot study. People have mentioned some of them. However, the most important is to have a controlled recording mechanism done by professionals and according to a universal protocol. Same environment, same conditions, same nutrition, same medicament. Professional nurses have to go around to pose the same questions on patients and take the same measurements.

My suggestion is to try with heart or neuro departments in university hospitals. This might be the best bet. Students in their early research stage might have more flexibility to convince their supervisors to sponsor the research idea. For example, I have seen several research pilot in the psychology department in McGill University (Montreal, Canada) dealing with various approaches to handle certain cases. I have not seen any with circulation or hearts. However, I am sure there will be.

A good start is to try to find out which department might be interested most. Then join their listserv or mailing list to get an inintial sens of perception from people on those specialized listserv.

I will try to ask some friends and if I find anything, I will update you guys.

[bluesky63]

Andrew, forgive me if this has been discussed already. I did do a search for "lazboy," "easy chair," "reclined chair," "recliner," and "barcalounger" and found nothing.

What if a person slept exclusively in such a chair? Would that do the trick? I wonder because a number of years ago my mother started sleeping in her recliner and ever since has refused to sleep anywhere else. She swears she will never sleep in a regular bed again. Now I wonder if it's the incline.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[AndrewKFletcher]

There have been many attempts made to have a hospital, university, consultant, phd, student, neurologist, vascular surgeons, charity, sleep centre, you name it I have already tried it many times over 16 years, to get this illusive controlled study set up and running.

This after all is the only excuse for not accepting the overwhelming personal accounts of improvements we are observing right here on this forum and having observed already the same amazing results in 2 previous pilot studies.

No matter how many promises I have received and believe me there have been many, nothing happens! Why? Because not having a controlled study is the only excuse left for these people who earn a comfortable living in the sick industry, for not accepting what is blatantly obvious!

Finding a cause, let alone something that is useful for anything is inevitably going to be a disaster for those that depend on their particular illness or injury!

Then there is the arrogance “Not invented here syndrome” Who is this commoner? and how dare he question several hundred years of erroneous literature! Yes have had all this too.

What I learned through all those years is that the only thing that matters here is that the people I know this can be of great help to, and indeed have seen some amazing recoveries from supposedly irreversible and incurable illnesses and conditions, hear this simple message and heal themselves for free. I always knew that there was never going to be any academic recognition but frankly who gives a shit?
I always knew deep down that this was going to eat away many years of my life and cost me many thousands of pounds. 16 years is a long time to be banging ones head against a brick wall. I would sooner be banging my head across the noses of those selfish contemptuous morons that stand in the way of progress!

History tells the same picture, when people work outside of the safety net they are destined to a life of scraping by while academics learn to build Higher and Better Barriers to keep out the truth that threatens their lucrative positions! George Orwell’s Animal Farm tells it how it really is. Yet it is always people thinking outside of the box that deliver answers!

Yes Doctors, Nurses, PHD Students, Surgeons, Neurologists, have all made empty promises! Some will be reading this!

One Lady Doctor in the U.K. was herself crippled with progressive multiple sclerosis and unable to practice, wheelchair bound and desperate enough to write to a layperson who was saying something in the Daily Mail Newspaper in 1997 about putting bricks under her bed and how it might do more than all of the literature and drugs that she had earned her living from. When she called she could not articulate well, but managed to make some promises. Yes she promised faithfully that once she was convinced enough about Inclined Bed Therapy she would do all that she could to make this known to the rest of her colleagues and help to get his illusive study set up.

Well, this same lady over 8 months of Inclined Therapy returned to her practice, walking, and speaking normally, but failed to keep her word about helping! The last conversation I had with her she said; “ Andrew I will be there for you when the time is right” Well if you are reading this Susan, when is the time going to be right?

What I need to hear is: “A Study has been set up and your theory and therapy is being tested” I do not want to hear about new hoops to jump through any more, I am sick and tired of trying this avenue and quite happy to let word of mouth spread around the globe in the hope that it will reach everyone who needs a little help with their illness or injury.

Besides the control group is all those stubborn people with multiple sclerosis who put their faith in drugs rather than 2 blocks of wood. We know the outcome of this approach already, so do we really need to deliberately subject a group of people to sleeping flat when they do it anyway?

I do have a plan based upon the CCSVI Tracking Project Thread and think that introducing DFSS and FSS scores into concise accurate accounts of progress using Inclined Therapy is the way forward.

My son has set up a forum on my webpage for this purpose and I have been busy adapting the guidelines to Inclined Therapy so that each person using Inclined Therapy will have a place to bring together all of their posts and notes into a coherent flowing Journal, supported by dates and week counts when changes are noted.

Apparently there are programmes out there that can be used to analyse data so long as it conforms to the same data collecting protocol.

And we have statisticians using this forum that could provide guidance and help.

But first of all we need to have an agreeable format for collecting data. Don’t worry if you have already begun Inclined Therapy, your posts can be copied into your journal so that they read more easily and people can follow your progress without having to search through everything posted.

Yes this approach is not going to be readily recognised by academia. But it will sit well with people who have multiple sclerosis and need some help. And who knows, it may also earn a place in a journal when the evidence stacks up to support it.

Thank you Jason, Cece, ms2009 and everyone who is giving this problem some thought.