A possible cause of MS a bacterial infection see video

[milesap]

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3572695.htm

[milesap]

CCSVI link to Bacterial Iinfection
http://www.cosmeticcentre.com.au/client ... 043332.pdf

[1eye]

from Wikipedia:

In 1979, Marshall was appointed as a Registrar in Medicine at the Royal Perth Hospital. He met Robin Warren, a pathologist interested in gastritis, during internal medicine fellowship training at Royal Perth Hospital in 1981. Together, the pair studied the presence of spiral bacteria in association with gastritis. In 1982, they performed the initial culture of H. pylori and developed their hypothesis related to the bacterial cause of peptic ulcer and gastric cancer.[2] It has been claimed that the H. pylori theory was ridiculed by the establishment scientists and doctors, who did not believe that any bacteria could live in the acidic environment of the stomach. Marshall has been quoted as saying in 1998 that "(e)veryone was against me, but I knew I was right."[5] On the other hand, it has also been argued that medical researchers showed a proper degree of scientific skepticism until the H. pylori hypothesis could be supported by evidence.[6] German researchers had published several studies during the early 20th century, positing that bacterial infection was the principal cause of stomach ulcers, but they failed to attract wider interest or demonstrate an acceptable proof.[citation needed]

After failed attempts to infect piglets in 1984, Marshall, after having a baseline endoscopy done, drank a Petri dish containing cultured H. pylori, expecting to develop, perhaps years later, an ulcer. He was surprised when, only three days later, he developed vague nausea and halitosis, (due to the achlorhydria, there was no acid to kill bacteria in the stomach, and their waste products manifested as bad breath), noticed only by his mother. On days 5–8, he developed achlorydric (no acid) vomiting. On day eight, he had a repeat endoscopy and biopsy, which showed massive inflammation (gastritis), and H. Pylori was cultured. On the fourteenth day after ingestion, a third endoscopy was done, and Marshall began to take antibiotics. This story is related by Barry Marshall himself in his Nobel acceptance lecture Dec. 8, 2005, available for viewing on the Nobel website. Interestingly, Marshall did not develop antibodies to H. pylori, suggesting that innate immunity can sometimes eradicate acute H. pylori infection. Marshall's illness and recovery, based on a culture of organisms extracted from a patient, fulfilled Koch's postulates for H. pylori and gastritis, but not for peptic ulcer. This experiment was published in 1985 in the Medical Journal of Australia,[7] and is among the most cited articles from the journal.[8]

If anybody thinks that a persistent hidden infection causes CCSVI or "MS", there is one way to prove it...

[SarahLonglands]

If anybody thinks that a persistent hidden infection causes CCSVI or "MS", there is one way to prove it...

No, you are wrong there since most people have encountered C pn before they are 20. Most people do not have the genetic prediposition to develop MS though, so they just get a something like a cold r a sinus infection.

Sarah

[1eye]

I think you could still prove it, especially using a concentrated dose such as you can culture on a Petri dish. pw"MS" are still normal human beings, and most are entirely asymptomatic until decades have passed. Something happens, and I contend that the something can be easily triggered by a Petri dish's worth of organisms. I think if there are any organisms involved it is their concentration and/or reactivation that causes further troubles.

[SarahLonglands]

1eye, of course people with MS are normal human beings: I'm glad that you think so.

One careless slip of a Petri dish in a laboratory could infect everyone working there with whatever was being cultured and I agree that I was infected with C pn at an early age. MS then developed when I reached my twenties but only became progressive twenty years later, probably due to a reinfection. My husband was probably reinfected at the same time but not being genetically predisposed for MS, he ended up with very high blood pressure ad heart arrhythmias. So he would have gained nothing by resorting to a petri dish in his laboratory.

Sarah

[1eye]

Heavens, I was not saying you, or your husband, or anyone careless, or anyone angling for prize money, for that matter, should take Cpn from a Petri dish, or any other way. Please, let's leave these things to the professionals. Do not try this at home!

[SarahLonglands]

Ah, but my husband is a professional. A lazy one though!

[JCB]

Watching and reading some of the available documents, I have a question for this group. I have had multiple CCSVI procedures, my left IJV continues to want to occlude. Could this be caused by Cpn? Am I waisting my time to try and keep my vein open, because the Cpn is just causing inflamation there?

[MarkW]

I wish you highly intelligent and well read people would stop using the term 'cause of MS'. The etiolgy of MS is highly complex with multiple factors. You should have read that pwMS have 57 genes which are special to us. No one knows if it is these genes which cause MS directly or an interaction of environmental factors on the genes (ie epigenetics) or just the environmental factors alone.
I have had this discussion with Prof Zamboni. He uses the term factors in a recent paper rather than cause. Before we know the etiology of MS lets treat the symptoms that are known to help many pwMS:
- increase vit D3 level to 125 nmol/L in blood or more
- de-stenose veins if found
- treat CPn if symptoms identified
Its not a question of what causes MS but which treatments may help pwMS. United we stand, divided we fall. Please unite to help pwMS not fight amongst ourselves.
MarkW (user of Wheldon protocol, veins de-stenosed twice, 10k vit D3 a day).

[dania]

I wish you highly intelligent and well read people would stop using the term 'cause of MS'.

I wish you, Mark, such a highly "intelligent" person would be kind and not RUDE. and too bad the empathy gene was not passed on to you.

[1eye]

Re: referring to the "cause" of "MS". Guilty as charged. But every time we hear "we don't know what causes it", isn't there something implicit that says something is there to know? I feel humanity is at a turning point, or tipping point, in the battle against what we have been calling "MS".

I have it, whatever it is. Though symptoms and progression sometimes occurred overnight, I have taken 30 years to get as disabled as I am. If it were down to genetic susceptibility I don't think I would have enjoyed the first 30 years quite as much. JMHO

If we can define it more accurately, point out "factors" that may exacerbate it, we can have a better idea how to avoid its problems and damage, making our lives fuller and less problematic.

However I don't think a scatter-gun approach to all cases will treat every individual case. That is also JMHO. Only time, in the context of an individual life, will tell.

I recommend the teachings of Dr. Walter von der Vogelbeiter on free will and necessity.

[1eye]

Watching and reading some of the available documents, I have a question for this group. I have had multiple CCSVI procedures, my left IJV continues to want to occlude. Could this be caused by Cpn? Am I waisting my time to try and keep my vein open, because the Cpn is just causing inflamation there?

We have seen veins just give up and die after CCSVI procedures, necessitating bypass in some. There could be an organism involved. My personal line of thinking is that we have "modified" immune systems, some of us. Like in legs with reflux and insufficient valves, the immune cells seem to congregate around the stenosis. It could be that there is a real intruder which has found a weak point to attack. It may actually be causing (oh, that word again) the demise of working valves and/or veins. The immune system is not supposed to need to be in the brain in such strength, so "collateral damage" occurs, especially when the BBB is in bad shape.

I don't know any answers. Maybe EPO would help. I dunno, I'm just a pw"MS" myself, and I think it has affected my cognition.

[MarkW]

If we can define it more accurately, point out "factors" that may exacerbate it, we can have a better idea how to avoid its problems and damage, making our lives fuller and less problematic.

Hello 1eye
I am trying to point out factors which if treated help many pwMS and seem to slow down MS progression. I agree with you about avoiding problems and living fuller lives. The big problem faced by many pwMS is that most doctors do not appreciate the complexity of MS so we have to organise possible therapies for ourselves. For example how many MS expert neurologists recommend high dose vit D3 ?? let alone consider CCSVI and veins.
I hope that more and more pwMS appreciate that a multifactor approach to treating MS is required.
MarkW

[1eye]

The good Dr. W. von der V, on the Universe:

Universe transcribed - stolen from elsewhere on the InertNet.