Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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NHE
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

Post by NHE »

ElliotB wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:45 am I also take benfotiamine and have been for years. In my opinion, taking any supplement for a short period of time is insufficient to notice any benefits from it.
The following review cites some studies using befotiamine in diabetic neuropathy. One study found a benefit with 300 mg twice a day within 6 weeks. Another study found a benefit with 100 mg four times a day within just 3 weeks.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8015839/
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

Post by ElliotB »

One thing I have learned about clinical trials and studies is that for the most part a single study often cannot be trusted. There are numerous reasons for this. And I have found that for any given topic, there are generally always positive and negative results. So, I always do my own intensive research of with multiple sources on any supplement or protocol I have an interest in and then try it on my own should I decide to move forward with it based on all the information I have come up with.

Just for fun, I did a search on Benfotiamine and got this as one of the results:
"One double-blind randomized controlled trial in type 1 diabetics failed to show significant improvement in peripheral nerve function with 2 years of benfotiamine treatment (300 mg/day), though a commentary on this study noted that the study design was questionable as the patients had almost normal nerve function, leaving no room for a meaningful improvement."

Another reported the following:
"In a randomized controlled trial of 70 people with mild cognitive impairment or mild Alzheimer’s disease, benfotiamine treatment (300 mg, twice daily) for 12 months showed a trend for a slowing of cognitive decline [1]. Advanced glycation end products (AGEs), which are toxic protein modifications indicative of altered glucose metabolism and aging, typically increase in the brains of Alzheimer’s patients, but benfotiamine treatment significantly reduced this increase. No benfotiamine effects were observed for verbal memory or cerebral glucose metabolism in this study. A larger confirmatory trial is needed to extend these preliminary findings."

FWIW, I have been taking benfotiamine for several years.

I have found conflicting information on just about every supplement I have researched. As far as clinical trials, it is important to know who is funding each study as the research is often skewed to support the desired result.

With regards to Benfotiamine, the good news is that in general it is considered safe and beneficial:
"Benfotiamine is converted to thiamine, which serves as a key factor for three enzymes involved in generating energy from glucose. Preclinical studies have found that benfotiamine enhances cognitive function and reduces biological markers of Alzheimer’s disease. These benefits may be due to benfotiamine’s ability to suppress the activity of an enzyme that promotes the progression of Alzheimer’.

But, the last sentence from the paragraph above is: "However, these effects have not been confirmed in humans."

My thoughts are if a supplement is not going to harm me, and there is a chance it can help me, I am willing to try it, EVEN IF there are 'studies' that show it is not helpful. And just a few days, week, even months is absolutely not enough time to know if any one supplement is helping. Even a year or longer may not be long enough time.
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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Natural allithiamine is widely accepted through clinical trials that is more effective than every other form of thiamine, so why not choose this instead of benfotiamine except it's price of course?
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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I wasn't aware of this form of B1. Thanks for the info. I am going to add this one to the two B1s I already take. I found some that is quite reasonably priced, about the same as other B1 supplements.


FWIW, there are many healthy foods that have B1 in them. I consume most of these already. Although tofu is included on the list, I don't recommend eating tofu. Other suggestions, fish and seafood should be wild caught, never farm raised. Meat and liver should be from grass fed animals only. Pork should be premium Berkshire pork. Eggs should be from hens being fed a diet free of corn and tofu.


Foods that have B1 thiamine include12:
Pork, beef, and liver
Fish and seafood
Seeds and nuts
Beans, legumes, and peas
Tofu and eggs
Brown rice and oats
Squash and asparagus
Oranges and dried milk
Fortified foods such as rice, pasta, breads, cereals, and flour.
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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Although Benfotiamine IS lipid soluble it doesn't penetrate BBB:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2435522/

Should be avoided?
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/I ... c13fc?p2df
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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DIM wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:31 pm Should [benfotiamine] be avoided?
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/I ... c13fc?p2df
The paper discusses thiamine disulfide and O-benzoyl thiamine disulfide. Neither of these molecules are benfotiamine.

Here's thiamine disulfide.
https://www.chemsrc.com/en/cas/100502-51-0_881281.html

Here's an O-benzoyl thiamine disulfide.
https://aksci.com/item_detail.php?cat=U842

Here's benfotiamine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benfotiamine
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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NHE wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:13 pm
DIM wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:31 pm Should [benfotiamine] be avoided?
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/I ... c13fc?p2df
The paper discusses thiamine disulfide and O-benzoyl thiamine disulfide. Neither of these molecules are benfotiamine.

Here's thiamine disulfide.
https://www.chemsrc.com/en/cas/100502-51-0_881281.html

Here's an O-benzoyl thiamine disulfide.
https://aksci.com/item_detail.php?cat=U842

Here's benfotiamine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benfotiamine
That's why I place the ? in the end of my phrase.
Although Benfotiamine isn't the best B1 form for multiple sclerosis, in my humble opinion this is Allithiamine.
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

Post by ElliotB »

I am not disputing the validity of the studies linked to above, but I am adding to the comment I made previously that studies are often biased and are not necessarily fully accurate. And there is usually contradictory information on just about everything studied. Studies are often flawed.

I found this from an article about benfotiamine:

"Benfotiamine is a relative of thiamine, better known as vitamin B1. Thiamine is critical for the metabolism of our brain’s major energy source—glucose. And benfotiamine, which converts to thiamine in the body, enters cells more easily than thiamine. Some studies suggested that benfotiamine treatment slowed cognitive decline in people with mild cognitive impairment or mild Alzheimer’s disease, but the studies were small and inconclusive. Benfotiamine appears to be safe when used at standard doses."

And this is why I always take numerous types of a supplement when numerous formulations are available, as is the case here. Magnisium is another good example - there are about 8 different magnesium formulations and I take all but one.

Here is a link to the article:

https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive- ... nfotiamine
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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A new study uncovers a molecular connection between vitamin B12 and multiple sclerosis (MS). The study identifies a key role of astrocytes and the brain’s vitamin B12 carrier protein, transcobalamin 2.
Findings show that the MS drug fingolimod enhances the brain’s B12 uptake, potentially improving MS treatments by reducing neuroinflammation and neurodegeneration.
This discovery not only underscores the importance of B12 supplementation in MS but also opens new pathways for future therapies in neuroinflammatory and neurodegenerative diseases.
Key Facts:
The study reveals that fingolimod, an MS drug, regulates B12 communication pathways in astrocytes, enhancing B12 uptake in the brain.
Lower levels of CD320 or dietary B12 restriction were found to worsen MS in animal models.
The research suggests the potential for brain-targeted B12 formulations and extends the understanding of B12’s role in neurodegenerative conditions.
For decades, scientists have noted an intriguing similarity between a deficiency in vitamin B12 – an essential nutrient that supports healthy development and functioning of the central nervous system (CNS) – and multiple sclerosis (MS), a chronic disease in which the body’s immune system attacks the CNS and which can produce neurodegeneration.
Both vitamin B12 (also known as cobalamin) deficiency and MS produce similar neurological symptoms, including numbness or tingling in hands and feet, vision loss, difficulty walking or speaking normally and cognitive dysfunction, such as problems with memory.
This shows neurons.
This known process was newly identified for its interactions with fingolimod within astrocytes. Importantly, the relationship was also observed in human MS brains. Credit: Neuroscience News
In a new study, published online December 8, 2023 in Cell Reports, researchers at Sanford Burnham Prebys, with collaborators elsewhere, describe a novel molecular link between vitamin B12 and MS that takes place in astrocytes – important non-neuronal glial cells in the brain.
The findings by senior study author Jerold Chun, M.D., Ph.D., professor and senior vice president of neuroscience drug discovery, and Yasuyuki Kihara, Ph.D., research associate professor and co-corresponding author, and colleagues suggest new ways to improve the treatment of MS through CNS-B12 supplementation.
“The shared molecular binding of the brain’s vitamin B12 carrier protein, known as transcobalamin 2 or TCN2, with the FDA-approved MS drug fingolimod provides a mechanistic link between B12 signaling and MS, towards reducing neuroinflammation and possibly neurodegeneration,” said Chun.
“Augmenting brain B12 with fingolimod or potentially related molecules could enhance both current and future MS therapies.”
In their paper, the team at Sanford Burnham Prebys, with collaborators at University of Southern California, Juntendo University in Japan, Tokyo University of Pharmacy and Life Sciences and State University of New York, focused on the molecular functioning of FTY720 or fingolimod (Gilenya®), a sphingosine 1-phosphate (S1P) receptor modulator that suppresses distribution of T and B immune cells errantly attacking the brains of MS patients.
Working with an animal model of MS as well as human post-mortem brains, the researchers found that fingolimod suppresses neuroinflammation by functionally and physically regulating B12 communication pathways, specifically elevating a B12 receptor called CD320 needed to take up and use needed B12 when it is bound to TCN2, which distributes B12 throughout the body, including the CNS.
This known process was newly identified for its interactions with fingolimod within astrocytes. Importantly, the relationship was also observed in human MS brains.
Of particular note, the researchers reported that lower levels of CD320 or dietary B12 restriction worsened the disease course in an animal model of MS and reduced the therapeutic efficacy of fingolimod, which occurred through a mechanism in which fingolimod hitchhikes by binding to the TCN2-B12 complex, allowing delivery of all to the astrocytes via interactions with CD320, with component losses disrupting the process and worsening disease.
These new findings further support to the use of B12 supplementation – especially in terms of delivering the vitamin to astrocytes within the brain – while revealing that fingolimod can correct the impaired astrocyte-B12 pathway in people with MS.
The scientists said it is possible that other S1P receptor modulators on the market, such as Mayzent®, Zeposia® and Ponvory®, may access at least parts of this CNS mechanism. The study supports B12 supplementation with S1P receptor modulators with the goal of improving drug efficacy for this class of medicines.
The study also opens new avenues on how the B12-TCN2-CD320 pathway is regulated by sphingolipids, specifically sphingosine, a naturally occurring and endogenous structural analog of fingolimod, toward improving future MS therapies, Chun said.
“It supports creating brain-targeted B12 formulations. In the future, this mechanism might also extend to novel treatments of other neuroinflammatory and neurodegenerative conditions.”
Additional authors on the study include Deepa Jonnalagadda, Manisha Ray, Clayton Ellington and Richard Rivera, all at Sanford Burnham Prebys, Aran Groves, Sanford Burnham Prebys and UC San Diego; Arjun Saha, University of Southern California; Hyeon-Cheol Lee-Okada and Takehiko Yokomizo, Juntendo University; Tomomi Furihata, Tokyo University of Pharmacy and Life Sciences; Edward V. Quadros, SUNY-Downstate Medical Center.
Funding: The study was supported by a grant from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke at the National Institutes of Health (R01NS103940), Novartis, MEXT/JSPS KAKENHI (18H02627, 19KK0199, 21H04798, 18K16246 and 21K08565 ). Further support was provided by the Uehara Memorial Foundation, Kanae Foundation for the Promotion of Medical Science, Mochida Memorial Foundation for Medical and Pharmaceutical Research and the Human Frontier Science Program, plus the Medical Scientist Training Program and Pharmacology Training Grant at UC San Diego (T32GM007752).

https://neurosciencenews.com/multiple-s ... wB5nmCfBCg
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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Thanks DIM this looks like progress, dare I say
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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DIM wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:49 am That's why I place the ? in the end of my phrase.
Although Benfotiamine isn't the best B1 form for multiple sclerosis, in my humble opinion this is Allithiamine.
When I do a search for allithiamine this one from Ecological Formulas is the most prevalent product that comes up.

https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins- ... lithiamine

However, according to the label it doesn't contain allithiamine. It has thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide.

Figure 1 in the paper linked below clearly shows that this is not allithiamine.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2435522/

Image

Is there something else that people are taking? The above supplement doesn't inspire confidence.
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

Post by DIM »

Exactly, that's why I order Dr Berg Allithiamine, I sent them an e-mail and they confirmed it is the natural product from garlic
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

Post by ElliotB »

Since Allithiamine is readily found in many common foods, in addition to a supplement, it makes sense (to me) to also include as many as these foods as possible in my diet. Which I do. And have been for years. I was not aware of this, frankly.

Allithiamine is found naturally in garlic, onions, and other allium vegetables.

Allium vegetables include:

Chives
Garlic
Leeks
Onions
Rakkyo
Scallions (also known as ‘green onions’ and ‘spring onions’)
Shallots

It is interesting how different this list is from the previous list I posted of foods that contain B1.

Something else to consider about supplement formulations, many manufacturers add bioperene (Black Pepper Fruit Extract) to their formulations. It is thought that bioperene promotes nutrient absorption (apparently clinical studies support this claim). Some of the supplements I take have bioperene added to them to make them more absorbable. This includes the benfotiamine supplement I take. I wonder is the benfotiamine used in the clinical trials had bioperene in them or not as this could make a difference, and potentially a large difference in the trial results. And I wonder if there has been a clinical trial comparing the effectiveness of Allithiamine vs benfotiamine with bioperene. NHE?
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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ElliotB wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 3:51 am Since Allithiamine is readily found in many common foods, in addition to a supplement, it makes sense (to me) to also include as many as these foods as possible in my diet. Which I do. And have been for years. I was not aware of this, frankly.

Allithiamine is found naturally in garlic, onions, and other allium vegetables.

Allium vegetables include:

Chives
Garlic
Leeks
Onions
Rakkyo
Scallions (also known as ‘green onions’ and ‘spring onions’)
Shallots

It is interesting how different this list is from the previous list I posted of foods that contain B1.

Something else to consider about supplement formulations, many manufacturers add bioperene (Black Pepper Fruit Extract) to their formulations. It is thought that bioperene promotes nutrient absorption (apparently clinical studies support this claim). Some of the supplements I take have bioperene added to them to make them more absorbable. This includes the benfotiamine supplement I take. I wonder is the benfotiamine used in the clinical trials had bioperene in them or not as this could make a difference, and potentially a large difference in the trial results. And I wonder if there has been a clinical trial comparing the effectiveness of Allithiamine vs benfotiamine with bioperene. NHE?
Indeed, foods that contain Thiamine do not necessarily contain Allithiamine and vice versa.
But if you read a trial I posted before Benfotiamine doesn't penetrate BBB while Allithiamine does, although both are lipid soluble!
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Re: Vital Nutrients for Nerve Repair & Neuropathy

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ElliotB wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 3:51 amSomething else to consider about supplement formulations, many manufacturers add bioperene (Black Pepper Fruit Extract) to their formulations. It is thought that bioperene promotes nutrient absorption (apparently clinical studies support this claim). Some of the supplements I take have bioperene added to them to make them more absorbable. This includes the benfotiamine supplement I take. I wonder is the benfotiamine used in the clinical trials had bioperene in them or not as this could make a difference, and potentially a large difference in the trial results. And I wonder if there has been a clinical trial comparing the effectiveness of Allithiamine vs benfotiamine with bioperene. NHE?
Piperine increases the absorption of many supplements by inhibiting several of the enzymes in the cytochrome P450 family which are found in the liver. This action can adversely affect the metabolism of many drugs potentially leading to negative side effects from an overdose due to reduced metabolism and clearance.

natural-approach-f27/topic18613.html#p181912

Piperine can also interfere with vitamin D3 uptake.

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/natural-a ... ml#p217052
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