rHIgM22 immunglobuline to build new myelin

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:14 pm

I wanted to share that interesting article i just came across:

<shortened url>

Greets

--Frank

viper498 · Post by **viper498** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:21 pm

Oh wow. That looks very interesting and promising.

Wonderfulworld · Post by **Wonderfulworld** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:34 pm

Frank
how are the helminths going?
I am fascinated.....really fascinated. How long have you been on them?
I do truly believe there is something in this, parasites and people have had mutual dependencies going back millenia, and then we get rid of them in 150 years....

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:34 pm

Hi WW,
I went through some of Frank's posts and he had emailed and gotten a response from the researcher in Argentina and mentioned that they sell the T suis ova in Germany, but to my awareness he isn't taking them.

I'm glad to see that you are interested though

Bob

viper498 · Post by **viper498** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:01 pm

Help me, I'm lost. What do helminths have to do with the link that Frank posted? I didn't read anything about helminths? Or is this a side conversation?

Brock

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:22 pm

Hi Brock,
If there is a side conversation, I'm not part of it. I think WW was recounting one of Frank's earlier posts when he mentioned some helminth stuff, but despite what I tell my wife, I have been wrong before.
Bob

viper498 · Post by **viper498** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:46 pm

Bob,

No big deal, I was just hoping to see some input on the subject of "recombinant human IgM promotes myelin repair after a single, very low dose". I thought I had missed something or that what Frank posted had something to do with the above. I guess I am not sure what exactly the above link means (completely) and was hoping someone smarter than I would join in and add comments. Thats usually how I begin to understand some of these things. Helminths aren't really a part of what the link is referring to, right?

Brock

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:04 pm

viper498 wrote:Bob, No big deal, I was just hoping to see some input on the subject of "recombinant human IgM promotes myelin repair after a single, very low dose".

Dignan posted this info a couple of days ago but there was no response

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-3652.html

Helminths aren't really a part of what the link is referring to, right?

No, you're right Brock. It doesn't have a thing to do with helminths.

Bob

TwistedHelix · Post by **TwistedHelix** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:26 am

If I can put in my two penn'orth, (like two cents' worth, but older ), I think Frank mentioned helminths as an interest, not that they are actually part of his regime.
Also, although I don't think the article was written very clearly, I think they meant that a second dose, five weeks after the first, didn't produce any more remyelination than the first.

Interesting to note that this worked in different models of ms -- d'you think this means different types of MS, (ie RRMS, PPMS, etc), or differently-triggered models of the same disease course?
I'd also like more information about the fact that the method of action seems to be dose-dependent. I'm not a scientist, and sometimes these abstracts raised more questions than they answer,

Dom . [/i]

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:59 am

Despite the presence of CNS remyelination, we have been unable to demonstrate a reversal of neurologic deficits using a number of performance tests in chronically demyelinated mice following treatment with remyelination-promoting antibodies. We attribute these observations to the progressive loss of large-diameter motor neurons (McGavern et al., [2000]).

This is something I mentioned in an earlier post and I don't find it a good sign. Remyelinating is something good to work towards but in going to these great efforts to remyelinate, in the process we also have to determine that that alone is offering what we are most looking for, decreased disability.

Dominico,

Interesting to note that this worked in different models of ms -- d'you think this means different types of MS, (ie RRMS, PPMS, etc), or differently-triggered models of the same disease course?

I put my reading glasses on and I didn't notice where they specifically stated that it worked on the different models of MS although common sense dictates that it would work as well as possible in any stage of MS.

What do I mean by as well as possible? It seems obvious that in the later stages there is an increased amount of axon death and atrophy, which continues, seemingly independant of inflammation and lesions.

My personal gut feeling is at that point, yes stopping the MS process in it's tracks is still important. Yes, remyelinating continues to be important. But specific to the later stage it seems to me that avoiding the later stages and improvement in the later stages more involves increasing vascular circulation.....stopping the death of and increasing the function of "what is left" in areas separated from normal use and left to atrophy by earlier damage.

I saw last night on the evening news that researchers are using Viagara in small, ongoing doses on an experimental basis on heart defects for it's ability to increase vascular circulation and since it's not dangerous I think that should also be done with MS.

If nothing else it seems that it would be wise for anyone with MS to take a baby aspirin per day from the moment they are diagnosed. Not that it might result in miraculous improvements but it might serve to keep areas isolated from use by lesions, and left to atrophy, alive long enough for future treatments to work their magic.

Enough of my two centablos.

Roberto

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:13 am

Just to clarify this, I'm not taking any parasite related things, I just posted a news on that subject.
I didn't make too much effort, getting the OVAMED product, because my neuro told me that one death in the Tysabri Study was due to a combination with the OVAMED drug, that the deceased patient was taking to treat Morbus Crohn.
In germany, there are currently two small studies recruting RRMS patients to be treated with the OVAMED drug...

@Lyon, how do you get access to the full text of the immunglobuline study, do you have to pay for that?
Anyway, thank you very much for sharing it with us!

--Frank

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:34 am

Wow! That was all very interesting and I didn't previously know any of it. Thank you Frank.

Frank wrote: I didn't make too much effort, getting the OVAMED product, because my neuro told me that one death in the Tysabri Study was due to a combination with the OVAMED drug, that the deceased patient was taking to treat Morbus Crohn.

I think we all knew that one of the Tysabri victims was a Crohn's patient but I'd never heard that he had previously or was presently on TSO. I've got to look into that.

Frank wrote:In germany, there are currently two small studies recruting RRMS patients to be treated with the OVAMED drug...

I knew that but because of the language difference or efforts at secrecy it's been almost impossible to find out much more than than the fact that they are going on.

Bob

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:10 am

I'm sorry that I decided to remove the link. It seemed wise to check the guidelines concerning my access to those journals and it's obvious that in posting that information there was no doubt that I was violating the rules and risking my continued access.

I am going to pursue the ability to post that information on this site in some limited way, shape or form and maybe that is a pursuit that Aaron and his humungous brain can help me resolve.
Bob

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TwistedHelix · Post by **TwistedHelix** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:12 pm

I didn't notice where they specifically stated that it worked on the different models of MS

OK Bob, got me there! The abstract actually mentions different models of demyelination, but because it goes on to mention a virus induced model of chronic MS, I made a bit of an assumption

Dom

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:29 pm

TwistedHelix wrote: The abstract actually mentions different models of demyelination, but because it goes on to mention a virus induced model of chronic MS, I made a bit of an assumption

Hi Dom,
Per my earlier response, at least to my way of thinking, it seems safe to say that although effective remyelinsation alone wouldn't cause the wheelchair to become obsolete I would think that remyelinisation is going to be of some benefit to anyone with any stage of the disease.....if someone, hopefully soon, can show that our efforts to remyelinate is going to actually pay off in decrease in disability at all.

Existing information showing that might already exist. I just haven't seen that aspect specifically pointed out. Although we evidently are supposed to assume that remyelinisation always decreases disability, I'd rather not just assume and that is why I find this so disconcerting

Despite the presence of CNS remyelination, we have been unable to demonstrate a reversal of neurologic deficits using a number of performance tests in chronically demyelinated mice following treatment with remyelination-promoting antibodies. We attribute these observations to the progressive loss of large-diameter motor neurons (McGavern et al., [2000]).

As you can see, that was from 2000 so hopefully another study supercedes this information.

People of thisisms, the hunt is on. Someone please submit information directly linking remyelinsation to decreased disability in any stage of the disease.

Bob