Stupid Study

scoobyjude · Post by **scoobyjude** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:19 pm

I read this study and it really pissed me off. Is it really saying that the majority of us are just crazy?!!! What criteria do they use to determine that these people presented with psychiatric manifestations? These kind of studies just perpetuate the feelings of the outside world that our problems are only in our minds.

This version was published on July 1, 2007
Multiple Sclerosis, Vol. 13, No. 6, 749-753 (2007)
DOI: 10.1177/1352458506075032
© 2007 SAGE Publications

The differential diagnosis of Axis I psychopathology presenting to a university-based multiple sclerosis clinic

Patients carrying a presumptive diagnosis of multiple sclerosis (MS) sometimes present with non-specific clinical signs and symptoms that may be, at least in part, somatic manifestations of psychiatric conditions. This retrospective study was undertaken to identify psychiatric diagnoses among 63 patients whose initial clinical evaluations suggested a primary psychiatric, rather than a primary neurological, etiology for their symptoms. Some 92% of patients met Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR) criteria for one or more primary psychiatric disorders, most often including somatoform, mood, and anxiety disorders. Accurate identification and diagnosis of psychiatric conditions producing pseudoneurological or non-specific somatic symptoms is necessary for both treatment and medico-economic reasons. Multiple Sclerosis 2007; 13: 749-753. http://msj.sagepub.com

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:49 pm

Hi Jude,

Not what it looks like. Their point is that although these people were referred to the U of C MS clinic, none of the people had MS and should have been recognized initially as having psychiatric disorders.

Bob

TwistedHelix · Post by **TwistedHelix** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:05 am

I think you're exactly right, Bob, but I can see why it pissed Scoob off: although the article asserts that some people with psychiatric disorders are mistakenly presumed to have MS, when I first read it, I too thought it was saying that some people with MS have a psychiatric disorder.
It would only take a small piece of sloppy journalism to have a damaging effect on public perception of this disease,

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:21 am

This is another one of those situations in which reading only the abstract gives the entirely wrong impression of the actual intent of the article. They should have a class for researchers in correct and efficient abstract writing.

Despite all that, just the fact that these people are incorrectly being funneled to MS centers seems to show that, even among the medical community, there is a perception that MS is associated with mental dysfunction.

Maybe Scooby really isn't so crazy.....or maybe because of MS, she is?? I'm so mixed up!

Bob

REDHAIRANDTEMPER · Post by **REDHAIRANDTEMPER** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:29 am

okay when i read it i was under the same impression..but after reading your take on it that does make sense...so i guess that is why i have been sent to two different psycologist so they can let the dr know i am not crazy or have any mood disorders. so that my syptoms are real and that maybe they will do something about it..lol.....

Chris55 · Post by **Chris55** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:18 am

I think a lot of MS patients end up on the "couch" before they receive a diagnosis of MS. Especially if they have more mental vs. physical symptoms. Everything I've read kind of regards this as pretty common.

Am I wrong???

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:25 am

Chris55 wrote:I think a lot of MS patients end up on the "couch" before they receive a diagnosis of MS. Especially if they have more mental vs. physical symptoms. Everything I've read kind of regards this as pretty common.
Am I wrong???

Interesting subject. I know that researchers have inconclusively tried to determine if the diagnosis and dealing with MS or physiological reasons are responsible for the depression sometimes seen in MS but I've never seen actual mental problems linked to MS....then again, I've never looked.

Hopefully others will respond with personal experiences. In my wife's case, her first noticed symptom led to her MS diagnosis.
Bob

Bob

scoobyjude · Post by **scoobyjude** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:54 pm

I guess maybe I did jump the gun but I think the excerpt was kind of misleading. Bad day I guess

Personally I have never seen a psychiatrist or therapist. I have been asked if I wanted to but I haven't felt the need to. Sure I've been depressed that I have MS but we all know that there is a big difference between that and the debilitating depression that some feel. I have a family friend who has had MS for 30 years and she was shocked when I told her I haven't seen a psychiatrist. She said it was the first thing her doctor told her to do. Maybe times have changed or it depends on what the doctor sees in the way a patient deals with their sickness. I was dxed relatively quickly so I didn't have to deal with the doctor's doubt. I guess I didn't realize how lucky I was.

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:27 am

scoobyjude wrote: I was dxed relatively quickly so I didn't have to deal with the doctor's doubt. I guess I didn't realize how lucky I was.

My wife was diagnosed quickly too. Though the diagnosis was a shock, as you mentioned, we're lucky not to have had to endure limbo.

If nothing else, MS is life altering and I sure hope that the fear of being stigmatized by talking to a psychologist or psychiatrist wouldn't keep someone from talking to a professional if they felt the need.

Not long after my wife was diagnosed I became convinced that there should be counselors specializing in helping people recently diagnosed with MS adjust to the transition. Going from a normal life to having your life turned upside down is a shock. A nightmare turned reality. This kind of thing happens to other people, not us. Sadly, in every situation someone has to the the other people, and in this case it's us.

With my wife, MS doesn't seem to be an issue. She doesn't talk about it and doesn't seem to think about it and I'm happy that at this early point she has that luxury, due to never having experienced the reality of a debilitating exacerbation.

Bob

scoobyjude · Post by **scoobyjude** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:55 pm

Lyon wrote:

She doesn't talk about it and doesn't seem to think about it and I'm happy that at this early point she has that luxury, due to never having experienced the reality of a debilitating exacerbation.

Bob, what you say is kind of true for me too. I did have a debilitating exacerbation in 2004 but at that time I didn't know that I had MS. The doctor's felt it was ADEM which is a one time event that can leave you with permanent symptoms. Of course during that time I was very depressed and scared but I believed it would get better and wasn't asked if I wanted to see a psychiatrist. Thankfully it did and I fully recovered. I thought that was the end but that lead to a minor exacerbation that dxed me with MS. If that exacerbation had been worse or had left me with permanent disablities, I'm sure I would've needed the assistance of anti-depressive meds or a therapist to get through it. Because my MS is for now pretty minor, I am able to live my life without thinking about it too much. I hope that it remains that way for a long time but none of us knows.

I agree that therapy for those newly dxed would be very helpful. I was lucky enough to have a very supportive and attentive family to help get me through the worst and not to sound like a quack but I have never needed my faith more than I did at that time. I probably would benefit from speaking to a therapist but I am the type of person who can't stand to talk about myself or sound whiny. It doesn't have to do with any stigma it's just my own stubborness. I'm also very optimistic about the future and that helps a lot too. I know I have obstacles ahead and I hope that I will deal with them in whatever way I need to. Until then I just try to live my life the best I can.

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:19 pm

scoobyjude wrote:The doctor's felt it was ADEM which is a one time event that can leave you with permanent symptoms.

Hi Judy,
Obviously an abbreviation, but one I've never seen before. I'll have to look it up!

scoobyjude wrote:I'm also very optimistic about the future and that helps a lot too. I know I have obstacles ahead and I hope that I will deal with them in whatever way I need to. Until then I just try to live my life the best I can.

I don't fool myself to believe that MS isn't capable of bringing someone down regardless of their attitude, but I think a positive attitude is essential and universally underestimated.

Obviously a positive attitude has got to be hard to maintain after an MS diagnosis and it seems it requires leaning more towards what some people might consider denial and I consider not dwelling.

Then again, my wife hasn't had to deal with a wheelchair or loss of vision and those are the true tests.
Bob

scoobyjude · Post by **scoobyjude** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:55 pm

Bob, ADEM stands for Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis. It's a type of encephalitis and it's usually brought on by an infection or virus and cause severe swelling in the brain and spinal cord and cause myelin damage. Very similar to MS but it's a one shot deal.

I don't consider my optimistic attitude as denial. I am all too fully aware of what may happen to me because of MS. I got quite a taste of that when I had my severe exacerbation. I am optimistic despite knowing this because I believe they will find a treatment to help with myelin repair and that this will greatly help heal many of our symptoms. I also believe that down the line they will find better treatments to stop progression and eventually a cure. I don't think that these beliefs are in anyway unrealistic. I'm not putting all my faith in them finding a cure tomorrow. I know that's a long way off. I do feel that my positive attitude has done a lot for my overall well being but believe me, it's not always easy. They are slowly making progress and I just hope that I can hang on with minimal damage until that happens. Judie

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:17 pm

scoobyjude wrote:Judie

Sorry! I remembered you were Judie, but I forgot how you spell it!

scoobyjude wrote:I don't consider my optimistic attitude as denial.

I don't know you well enough to know one way or the other, but I've never gotten the idea that you engage in denial. I guess my point is that it sometimes seems that if you don't run yourself through the mill constantly, you're in denial and I don't agree with that.

I'd rather my wife does as she does, lean more toward the side of the spectrum considered "denial" and less towards the side of the spectrum considered "dwelling" on it.

Bob

scoobyjude · Post by **scoobyjude** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:41 am

Lyon wrote:

I'd rather my wife does as she does, lean more toward the side of the spectrum considered "denial" and less towards the side of the spectrum considered "dwelling" on it.

Yeah, I'd agree with that statement. I've tried both ends of the spectrum and it's a lot easier to get through life on the "denial" end. I'm by nature a dweller and worrier so it was hard for me to get to this point. I think in the beginning I was in denial but over the years I've learned to look at my future differently. I've learned that little victories mean a lot and to cherish every moment. If my health changes maybe my outlook will too. I have no way of knowing but worrying about what might happen is no way to live, at least for me. I'm curious, does your wife ask you what is discussed on the site? I sometimes wish that my boyfriend was as involved in research as you are because I'd like to be able to discuss more with him. He prefers to be my refuge away from MS. Maybe he's a little in denial

And don't worry about my name, I wasn't correcting you. Some of my family still spell my name wrong. It's just a nickname anyway

Lyon · Post by **Lyon** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:43 am

scoobyjude wrote:I'm curious, does your wife ask you what is discussed on the site? I sometimes wish that my boyfriend was as involved in research as you are because I'd like to be able to discuss more with him. He prefers to be my refuge away from MS. Maybe he's a little in denial

Quite a bit different situation here. She's the one with MS and is no more familiar with the disease than the general public and as long as I'm obsessed with it, she has absolutely no interest.

She's quite willing to listen when I talk about Tovaxin, rebooting or the hygiene hypothesis but I don't discuss it often because it really has to be quite boring stuff for someone who doesn't have the obsession!

Bob