1st movement after waking triggers violent muscle spasms

[jimmylegs]

at least your choice is on this list https://bodynutrition.org/coq10/
i know nothing about coq10 supplements. the brands i can think of, which i would consider high quality and which might have such a product, are *not* on that list

[Scott1]

Hi,

I can only speak about the ones I have access to so good luck and I hope it is useful. I noted on JL's link one product was a powder. Don't bother with Q10 powders. The molecule is large and not easily absorbed. The gel version are much more likely to work.

Vitamin E is an electron rich reduced form of CoQ10 and ,due to its capacity to be both an acceptor and donor of electrons, the Q10 can help restore vitamin E's ability to soak up free radicals. That's why I like that combination.

The largest producer of Q10 is a Japanese company called Kaneka. They use a fermentation process and market their product to others under the brand Q-Gel. Anything saying Q-Gel comes from them.

The other thing to watch with CoQ10 is the use of statins. They inhibit HMG-CoA reductase (it has a very long name if you want to look it up). That enzyme is key to the biosynthesis of cholesterol but blocking it blocks natural CoQ10 formation

Regards,

[NHE]

Vitamin E is an electron rich reduced form of CoQ10

I'm just not seeing that. Granted, although there are some structural similarities, CoQ10 does not have vitamin E's hetero-bicyclic ring structure.

CoQ10




Tocopherols & Tocotrienols

[Scott1]

Hi,

I was paraphrasing from what I thought Stephen Sinatra said on page 69 of "Metabolic Cardiology". Now that you have drawn my attention to this, I have to concede that my interpretation is wrong or his English was poor but more likely, It's both!

This reference https://books.google.com.au/books?id=9- ... 0e&f=false is probably a better explanation.
Your observation prompted me to look hard to check and there are endless references to the efficacy of the combination of CoQ10 and Vitamin E.

It does, however, tend to support my preference for gel capsules with d-alpha-tocopherol rather than any other form of the supplement.

Regards,

[hellokc]

I'm going to try this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HR ... X0DER&th=1

I also take CoQ10. I actually take a liquid form because I want to minimize taking pills. After tons of research, I found that a water and fat-soluble form of CoQ10 provides the best absorption.

[THX1138]

Enhancing Blood Volume in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) and Fibromyalgia
https://www.healthrising.org/treating-c ... romyalgia/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ElliotB]

Dr Stephen Sinatra offers many unique and interesting supplements (generally targeted to heart health as he is a cardiologist) and they are formulated by himself - and while he does not offer a COQ10 only product he uses COQ10 in many of his products and uses a special form of highly bioavailable CoQ10 called Hydro Q-Sorb which is supposed to be up to 8x more bioavailable than ordinary CoQ10 powders - supplements are a blind item (there is very little regulation in the supplement industry). CoQ10 Hydro Q-Sorb is readily available on its own elsewhere.

[THX1138]

Me getting dehydrated (I drink 1 gallon of water a day) seems to be the biggest issue of anything. It causes all sorts of other problems - brain fog, muscle tightness, spasms, with 1st movement after waking, foot drop/drag, low, low energy.
One morning I couldn't even get out of bed, so the ambulance was called. In the hospital, they gave me a saline IV, but that wasn't enough fluid. Then I drank about a quart of water. Then I was able to get out of bed and stand. When I'm dry I feel like I'm half-dead.

[1eye]

Re the mention of a lot of press re the stomach and its bugs:

biotin is manufactured using culture of gut bacteria. It is synthesized by some gut bacteria and used by others.

from Wikipedia:

Gut flora (gut microbiota, or gastrointestinal microbiota) is the complex community of microorganisms that live in the digestive tracts of humans and other animals, including insects. The gut metagenome is the aggregate of all the genomes of gut microbiota.[1] The gut is one niche that human microbiota inhabit.[2]

In humans, the gut microbiota has the largest numbers of bacteria and the greatest number of species compared to other areas of the body.[3] In humans the gut flora is established at one to two years after birth, and by that time the intestinal epithelium and the intestinal mucosal barrier that it secretes have co-developed in a way that is tolerant to, and even supportive of, the gut flora and that also provides a barrier to pathogenic organisms.[4][5]

The relationship between some gut flora and humans is not merely commensal (a non-harmful coexistence), but rather a mutualistic relationship.[2]:700 Some human gut microorganisms benefit the host by fermenting dietary fiber into short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs), such as acetic acid and butyric acid, which are then absorbed by the host.[3][6] Intestinal bacteria also play a role in synthesizing vitamin B and vitamin K as well as metabolizing bile acids, sterols, and xenobiotics.[2][6] The systemic importance of the SCFAs and other compounds they produce are like hormones and the gut flora itself appears to function like an endocrine organ,[6] and dysregulation of the gut flora has been correlated with a host of inflammatory and autoimmune conditions.[3][7]

The composition of human gut flora changes over time, when the diet changes, and as overall health changes.[3][7] A systematic review from 2016 examined the preclinical and small human trials that have been conducted with certain commercially available strains of probiotic bacteria and identified those that had the most potential to be useful for certain central nervous system disorders.[8]

Seems to me that in addition to recent discovery of MS-treating properties of biotin, its role in MS might be related to the role and function of gut flora.

[Scott1]

Hi,

Did you go back to your doctor to see if can either come off Mesalamine or try another strategy?

Constipation is listed as a complication. Dehydration and constipation often occur together. The drug may not be the right one for you.

https://www.druginformer.com/search/sid ... ation.html

I'd be uneasy about following that link you posted suggestions on salt until I had checked whether Mesalamine is involved in this problem with dehydration

Regards,

[THX1138]

Did you go back to your doctor to see if can either come off Mesalamine or try another strategy?

No, the doctor (nurse) who prescribes the mesalamine i've only been seeing every 6 months - 1 year recently. I have an appointment scheduled in late November. I will be calling her, though, to mention the dehydration. I've been thinking that I need to come up with a strategy to withdraw from the mesalamine. Although I suppose I can talk with the nurse before that time.

[NHE]

at least your choice is on this list https://bodynutrition.org/coq10/
i know nothing about coq10 supplements. the brands i can think of, which i would consider high quality and which might have such a product, are *not* on that list

If you shop at Costco, then you can get Qunol Hydrosoluble ubiquinol capsules at a fair price. Costco will put it on sale at $7 off about every 2 or 3 months.

https://www.costco.com/Qunol-Mega-CoQ10 ... 30572.html

[NHE]

side note which you may also recall: my worst brain fog ever (major difficulties driving as a result) disappeared forever after correcting my deficient zinc levels. it's been 10 yrs now, since i had a brain that messed up. at the same time as zinc was corrected, my serum uric acid levels bounced up out of the ms zone for the first time ever since i had started asking for the test. bet if i'd had ammonia levels tested at the time, they would have been through the roof!

related:
Current concepts in the pathogenesis of urea cycle disorders
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20227314
"The common feature of urea cycle diseases (UCD) is a defect in ammonium elimination in liver, leading to hyperammonemia. This excess of circulating ammonium eventually reaches the central nervous system, where the main toxic effects of ammonium occur. These are reversible or irreversible, depending on the age of onset as well as the duration and the level of ammonium exposure... Better understanding the pathophysiology of ammonium toxicity to the brain under UCD will allow the development of new strategies for neuroprotection."

ORAL ZINC SUPPLEMENTATION IMPROVES HEPATIC ENCEPHALOPATHY
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6147551
"Short-term oral zinc supplementation probably improved hepatic encephalopathy by correcting the zinc deficiency that compromises conversion of ammonia to urea."

Is a high BUN test sufficient for evaluating potential hyperammonemia or is a different test required? Which test (there's nothing listed under ammonium in Lab Corp's test menu)? I have a family member with congestive heart failure accompanied by marked cognitive decline. BUN is 23 mg/dL and the range is 8-25 mg/dL. Creatinine is low, 0.59 mg/dL, so the BUN/Creatinine ratio is high, i.e., 39 and the range is 10-24.

[jimmylegs]

hi just serum ammonia as far as i've ever seen in the lit.

Noncirrhotic hyperammonemia causing relapsing altered mental status (2015)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4569228/

table 1 initial lab values
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... /table/T1/

subject's BUN was 17 mg/dl, that lab's normal range was 8-20 so by that standard your family member's level is elevated.
subject's serum ammonia level was 123 umol/L (normal, 10–40 umol/L).

serum ammonia test:
https://labtestsonline.org/understandin ... a/tab/all/

i looked for it in life extension's offerings and just with a general search for
order requisition serum ammonia
or
order requisition serum NH3.

no dice so far. has to get done somewhere!

edit - 2 more studies (i did like that mention of a u-shaped assoc'n for se ua and HS in the second one, but it wasn't evident for CHF - no time atm to dig in and see if means are readily available to peruse):

Zinc balance and medications commonly used in the management of heart failure
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... -1?LI=true

Uric acid and risk of myocardial infarction, stroke and congestive heart failure in 417 734 men and women in the Apolipoprotein MOrtality RISk study (AMORIS)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 133.x/full

[hellokc]

Dr Stephen Sinatra offers many unique and interesting supplements (generally targeted to heart health as he is a cardiologist) and they are formulated by himself - and while he does not offer a COQ10 only product he uses COQ10 in many of his products and uses a special form of highly bioavailable CoQ10 called Hydro Q-Sorb which is supposed to be up to 8x more bioavailable than ordinary CoQ10 powders - supplements are a blind item (there is very little regulation in the supplement industry). CoQ10 Hydro Q-Sorb is readily available on its own elsewhere.

The Hydro Q-Sorb used in Sinatra's products is made by a company called Tishcon and provides superior absorption. Tishcon also makes a type of CoQ10 called Q-Gel that provides superior absorption and is used in water and fat-soluble CoQ10 supplements. You can find these products at a much more affordable price.